Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:29:01 -0800
Reply-To:     Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electric Water Pump
Comments: To: B Monk <wmonk@snet.net>
In-Reply-To:  <97726.27124.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I make that out to be about a .01 % improvement.  Is that right?  So for a
90 HP Vanagon with 80 HP at the rear wheels you'd get an additional 9/10 of
a horsepower?

Easier to take off the power steering belt.

On Feb 19, 2008 3:37 AM, B Monk <wmonk@snet.net> wrote:

> I can give you some real figures on how much hp gain you get with an
> electric waterpump.
>  This is not on a Vanagon ,but on my Mustang. Its all Dyno proven.
> Remember that
>  drag racing is a game where thousands are spent to shave off 10ths of
> seconds.
>  Here is the numbers:
>
>  RWHP without electric pump 446   with elecrtic pump 452
>  It brought my high 12's down to low 12's.
>  With giggle gas 562 and 570 respectively....
>  The pump was advertised to offer 10-15hp gains.
>  One thing to mention is these electric pumps are made to replace the
>  actual mechanical belt driven pump. They bolt into the same place the
> original
>  pump was except where the shaft the pulley bolts onto is now an electric
> motor.
>  I don't think I have ever seen a universal pump that could be bolted on
> somewhere inline
>  with a coolant hose. There would be a benefit to the vanagon that it
> could be
>  programmed to have an after run time to help with a better cool down
> after driving.
>  Depending on the temp mine is set to run anywhere from 3-10 minutes...
>
>  Bill
>  P.S.  Ken I'll look for that video for you later tonight...
>
>
> Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>  Experiment of course, that's how gains are made.
> But I would be very, very surprised if you can get any measurable increase
> in fuel mileage in a vanagon by having an electric water pump instead of a
> belt driven one.
> The impeller portion is so small and easily driven, that I think probably
> the drag of the v-belt driving it is a bigger factor than the load on the
> impeller.
>
> Additionally, in the whole scheme of what a vanagon is - a 4,000 lb box,
> and
> given the crudeness of the waterboxer engine breathing ..............the
> water pump is about .oooo2 % of a factor in fuel consumption.
> Like I would be shocked if there was a measurable increase by going to an
> electric water pump.
> But someone should experiment.
> Fuel economy is usually gotten by low aero drag, low rolling resistance,
> small engine, and often low rpm or very high gearing, and a high running
> temp. How efficient the engine is matters too of course.
> But a vanagon .............you got a lot to overcome there for fuel
> mileage gains.
>
> One guy was claiming 26 mpg on gasoline, with a subaru 2.5 engine at
> 65ish........
> Which I a little skeptical about. Anything in the low to middle 20's at a
> decent cruise speed of 65ish for a gasoline vanagon is 'about it'
> ........unless someone can unleash something really significant, ( I do
> have
> an idea in mind too, an aero improvement ) or numerous incremental
> improvements.
> I don't especially think a stock body gasoline vanagon with adequate
> performance and power can do over about 24 mpg at 65ish mph, tops. Maybe
> 24.5 . One subaru 2.2 conversion I did, the guy reported 21 to 22 mph inn
> really hot summer temps at high altitude, with one tank 24 mpg.
> I'd like to see some gasoline vanagon with adequate power and performance
> do
> better than that, in 'real operating ranges' of 50 to 70 mph, not an odd
> steady 40mp or something not practical like that.
> If you want a shock, calculate miles per dollar sometime.
> My all time record is putting a hundred bucks in an envelope, and only
> buying gas out of that, for a 56 VW Commercial Bus . doors on both sides.
> In the 70's. Drove 3,200 miles on that hundred bucks for 32 miles per
> dollar, on the open spaces of Nevada.
> These days I'm 20 mpg at $ 3/gallon = 5 gallons to go 100 miles - 15
> dollars to go 100 miles, equals ..........what is that, 6 and a half miles
> per dollar or so. That sounds awful !
>
> Anyway, I want to see someone do in the mid 20's on gasoline, in a
> vanagon,
> at decent speeds, and with adequate power and performance, or even a solid
> 25 mpg. That would be quite an accomplishment to get up to that kind of
> mpg
> *commonly* and like 'mostly most of the time.' .that would be phenomenal
> even.
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Allan Streib
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:26 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump
>
> Kenneth Lewis writes:
>
> > I agree with your assumptions as they apply to FWD cars that
> > require paltry amounts of coolant and only have to push it a short
> > distance. But what about Vanagons which hold gallons and have round
> > trips measured in yards? I would think that would greatly increase
> > the load on the water pump. I have compared a new pump to an old
> > one. The wear on the impeller blades is very evident . So an
> > electric driven water pump might prove a healthy gain in FE (fuel
> > economy).
>
> A worn impeller is caused by corrosion and/or cavitation. Neglecting
> to change the coolant as specified is often a contributing factor, or
> it could be poor quality materials in the manufacturing process.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1991 Vanagon GL
>



--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL
1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
Crescent Beach, BC
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27