Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:41:28 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Retrofit Electric Pumps
In-Reply-To: <35066.162.58.82.135.1203433774.squirrel@webmail.northstate.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
Thanks for the link. I've been reading articles like this in automotive
repair trade magazines for a few years.
I think it would be more fair to say 'in some cars the PS system can consume
up from 1 to 3 mpg'
And I'd say that 3 mpg would be an extreme rare case.
And.............there is a huge difference between a 12 to 15 mpg 'big
truck' or V-8 SUV and a 33 mpg Honda Civic - 1 mpg is a huge gain to the
first vehicle and a smaller percentage gain
The Honda.
And I can tell you right now PS Vanagons don't get 1 to 3 mpg less than
non-PS vanagons.
'maybe' a half to 1 mpg if that.
I changed the entire front end on an 83 Vanagon Adventurewagen.
I put in a whole 85 Vanagon front suspension and PS from the 85 - a huge
job, let me tell ya !
( and converted it to a 5 speed trans at the same time- that part was pretty
easy in comparison to doing the PS.)
The owner of that van is a nut about checking mpg. Checks it every tank.
Get's good mileage too, generally speaking. He never once made any comment
that adding PS had any affect on mpg, and he loves the upgrade.
My point is, yes, for numerous reasons modern cars have electric PS systems,
And................please do fit one to a Vanagon ..................you
'might' gain a little. If it could make the difference between 20 and 21.5
mpg say, I think that would be fantastic !
- and very worthwhile to do, even if it cost a thousand bucks to do.
I'm sure there is some Chevrolet electric PS steering rack that could be
retro-engineered in.
There's this other Big Factor you have to take into consideration.
As you design and upgrade things, first you are adding a feature onto an
existing design that didn't have that feature in mind when they designed
that car or platform in the first place.
You can only go so far doing things this way.
Only when you have the new feature in mind from the very beginning of the
platform's design thinking can you really gain benefits from the new
feature.
A Hybrid Prius just could not be what it is if they were fitting that whole
system to an existing platform, which is where they often start in the
prototype stage, but ultimately, to incorporate all the new features you
want in a platform.............electric steering, electric water pump, part
time alternator charging, aerodynamics, low rolling resistance,
crashability, low emissions and high fuel economy ................you need
to start with a clean sheet of paper to maximize the benefits of all those
enhancements. There is just no way around that.
In Europe they have at least two VW vans after the Eurovan.........so
they have done what we would love to do to our vanagons, by re-doing the
whole platform and concept.........
And they have easily gone from the 20 mpg area to the 26 mpg area I would
sure expect.
But go for it.........I eagerly await reports of significantly improved
vanagon fuel mileage via these 3 ideas here - electric PS and water pump,
and alternator charging only when needed.
There really could be something to gain if all three are incorporated.
And lets' not forget...........
Three areas that Vanagon upgraders often do that hurt fuel mileage.......
No, just thought of a 4th way too.............the first is big knarly tires.
Those eat power and fuel terribly. Next is junk on the roof - big tires up
there, huge racks............one syncro westy here had a 10 inch diameter 8
foot long black plastic PVC tube for fishing poles on the roof. The 3rd one
is weight. Those giant front bumpers............adding like a hundred
pounds, and in a bad place to be adding weight too. I just took this awning
off the side of my new AW and it weighs like 70 lbs, and having that weight
up high is the wrong place..........
And the 4th place is raising gearing too much, like on subaru conversions,
and making the engine work harder at higher cruise speeds by not having it
in its sweet spot of rpm and power anymore.
So let's get those 4 areas 'about right' first, then let's do these other
fuel savings things.
I early await ecstatic reports of fantastic mileage figures for vanagons.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Lewis [mailto:kdlewis@northstate.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:10 AM
To: Scott Daniel - Shazam
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: [VANAGON] Retrofit Electric Pumps
Scott,
Here is an interesting site extolling the benefits of electric power
steering pumps:
http://www.automotivedesignline.com/howto/165600237
They claim:" the hydraulic steering system in your car siphons off
somewhere between one to three miles per gallon from your vehicle's
performance and consumes more energy than your car's air conditioner? In
fact, it's the third highest energy-loss mechanism in your car, following
wind resistance and road friction."
Three extra miles per gallon in a Vanagon would be significant.
Ken Lewis
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