Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (February 2008, week 3)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:49:01 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject:      Re: Zetec diesel
Comments: To: Anthony Egeln <regnsuzanne@yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To:  <258289.18610.qm@web51502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The TDCi gets great reviews, I've never seen or driven one. Aside from the immediate problem of them being unavailable in the US, so are their parts. As far as when or if it'll come to the states, it's a pretty sure bet that any version of it won't be before 2012 if ever at all. In 04 when we first got rolling with the zetecs I thought more like 2009, and there was lot's of talk of both biodiesel and cellulosic ethanol as alternative fuels. I think perhaps more telling was that the federal government was also talking clean diesel(from mobile sources). But now in 08, and pretty much as of early 07, serious talk of clean diesel as a bullet point or pillar for policy and initiatives like 20 in 10 has completely disappeared, replaced by ethanol/cellulosic ethanol, and the rest of the discussion going to GHG(green house gas) emissions rights and bickering over CAFE(Corporate Average Fuel Economy) and mileage requirement determination.

There is clean diesel reflected in the EPA budgets, but for clean diesel it is fairly low, isn't slated to grow at all for 08-09, and is almost entirely for Non-road diesels. Some of the efforts might trickle down to mobile sources, but they aren't even really spending to meet CA non-road diesel emissions perhaps because there are so many unkowns when it comes to how the state/fed will work out their emissions restriction rights. Since this is case it seems the expensive to achieve CA regulations won't get targeted unless they force automakers to do so, or unless they do so voluntarily. The biggest active clean diesel initiative I know of is for diesel retrofit for heavy duty diesels.. and even then, it's voluntary.

I never thought that watching politics could yield so much info about cars, but it makes sense since it almost directly affects the market, and indeed the players in the market affect the politics.

Just as quickly as diesel/bio-diesel interest is proliferating in alternative fuel proponent communities, the cost risks associated with meeting the equally fast moving anti-pollution legislation prevents them from infiltrating. I think it is likely to continue to do so until someone has a breakthrough success with clean diesel at substantially lower cost than what is available either now or perhaps even what's possible within the next 2-3 years, but I hope to be proven wrong.

I been developing a sinking feeling that the real motivator that best explains the departure from clean diesel interest isn't just what we know, but the fear of what we don't yet. The risks are high for automakers financially, since if they invest heavily in clean diesel and CA wins the right to control is own GHG laws it could easily deny them the right to sell into the biggest markets in the country(hmm that problem seems so familiar to me for some reason?) if the restrictions are ahead of development. Furthermore, CA isn't going to feel like it needs to help on the clean diesel front, since it is working hard now to legislate and force fleet overturn in CA, which is their way of saying "shut up, we're forcing people to buy your new cars" to automakers, while also actually having the effect they want and pulling all of the ancient gross polluters that never rust off the roads. Of course this means much of the legal side of things is up in the air still, and we'll pretty much have to wait and see how it pans out. In the development cycle the last thing you want is a moving target since it can by definition stop being a cycle altogether. Actually that's pretty much true all the time unless the point of the exercise is to show off how well you can hit a moving target, or if you have plenty of chances to hit it(which requires time/resources).. which nobody has or will part with easily.

So despite the appeal of the diesels and their pros, I wouldn't hold my breath until 2010 for the first noticeable resumption in serious clean diesel policy, since 2010 is when the 4% per year CAFE requirement kicks in... especially if other technologies don't pan out(which doesn't appear to be happening, enzymes for cellulosic ethanol production have been cut in cost by 10 times in the last couple years). If clean diesel has a cost breakthrough AND emissions legislation don't continue to ramp at the same pace AND the other options for reductions in fuel usage fall short, then we might see it.. but that's a lot of ifs. Actually the whitehouse version of the 07 Energy/Safety bill was more aggressive than the one that congress passed, and would perhaps have helped introduce the need for clean diesels sooner if ever by making it even harder to meet the CAFE requirements without them.

whoa that was long...

To answer the questions shortly, definitively, and with opinion:

better than 30? Yes.

know much about it? Not really. But it will fit.

have contact at ford, to ask about? Yes, and the answer in early 06 was still "No current plans". I'd be VERY surprised if it's changed since then given how things have been moving.

We might get the chance to go to sweden and convert a vanagon to a TDCi to see for ourselves if it can be done.. but it's just talk and mostly dream at this point, there is no timeline for us even doing it, and it wouldn't actually in the end make financial sense from the business or customer point of view, but it would be cool.

Jim Akiba

On 2/19/08, Anthony Egeln <regnsuzanne@yahoo.com> wrote: > Wow! One review done in the UK says the Zetec Diesel Focus averages 58 mpg...and their highway best was 75 mpg! > > Now the Focus is a small car, but maybe the vanagon conversion could do better than 30? > > Bostig fellas...know anything about this engine? > > Anyone have a contact at Ford that could inquiry about future US models? > > Anthony > '89 Syncro GL (Hidalgo) > > > Allan Streib <streib@CS.INDIANA.EDU> wrote: On a whim I googled "Zetec diesel" and it seems that there is such a > beast. 1.6l "TDCi" a/k/a the DV6. Are these available at all in the > US? Would they work with the Bostig kit? > > Allan > -- > 1991 Vanagon GL > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.