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Date:         Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:55:56 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence
              was retained.
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electric Water Pump
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <003601c8738d$75f9d770$6501a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I confuse easily but I think the short stroke, large bore design is considered under square. Yes, the Vanagon being under square keeps piston speeds low for a given RPM but it is working and working hard. How many modern cars use most of the available horse power to achieve highway speeds? Yes, properly taken care of the engine does not seem to mind but if your foot is down, it is working.

While the engine may not mind, the accessories and their bearings are getting a real work out. And since these bearings can not be re-lubed, their life can be shortened. That poor alternator may be doing 10,000 rpm.

As for anti freeze having abrasives, why else would silica and silicates, (beach sand) be an ingredient. Have you taken a part cooling systems where someone thought straight anti-freeze was a good thing? It is amazing the stuff that collects. How about the residue from Dex-cool? Like some type of plastic scrubbers.

Yes corrosion and erosion are different things. Both can be a problem. So can cylinder liner cavitations erosion. This is a particular problem on Diesels. Just ask Ford power Stroke owners that have replaced engines.

If you really want to get crazy with antifreeze, jump into the Diesel truck world. You can really go crazy here.

As for water pump life, many cars need pumps long before 100,000 miles. Usually it is a seal failure but smaller pumps now also go through bearings.

I have owned FUN BUS since new. The first pump went at 49,000 miles. Seal leak. Was replaced under warranty. Next pump was replaced while traveling to Alaska, 96,000 miles. Developed a loud squeal. I replaced that one in a campground in Michigan. Both times VW blue coolant was used. At 135,000 miles I flushed the system and changed over to Dex-Cool. That pump went to almost 210,000 miles.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Shazam Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:54 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump

A waterboxer engine is a pretty oversquare engine.......meaning short stroke, large bore, and 4,000 rpm is just a nice spin. It's not 'working' to turn 4K rpm.

Anti-corrosion additives in anti-freeze are abrasive ????? I think you should offer some documentation or something to back up that claim. Don't mean to be offensive, but did you just pull that out of the air ? or did you read it somewhere ? The engines I service must not have a problem since I use a small amount of water soluble oil in the water/a-frz mixture, and I just don't ever have corrosion problems. Of course I needs changing on a regular basis. Every two years is the long standing standard.

You're using the word 'corrosion' and 'erosion' interchangeably - they are different things. Corrosion gets to a lot of cooling system parts all right ! I've seen cast aluminum hose connection points on diesel vanagon water pump housings rotted completely through. Aluminum under hoses seems to really corrode 'nicely.'

Waterboxer water pumps do seem to last only about 70K miles. Why would that be I wonder ? All kinds of other engines have water pumps spinning just as fast and they last much longer. Scott

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:12 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump

Water definitely erodes piping systems and other parts it moves through. Water jets can be used to cut steel and concrete. Cooling system erosion is a common source of failures. What do you think really happens to heater cores and often radiators? The erosion wears the tubes making them thin enough to leak. Automotive coolants can make things worse as part of the corrosion control package is abrasives. These abrasives are also what wears out the seal set. On the Vanagon, things are made worse as the engine is often working at some 4,000 rpm. The water pump is spinning almost twice as fast. No wonder those bearings often say no more. Using high mineral tap water also adds to the water wear problem.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Lewis Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:15 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump

Allan, It's a mystery to me how a fluid could erode the metal impeller. I stay on top of coolant changes so I don't think it was that. I have the distinct impression that failure rates did drop significantly when I switched from Italian to German made water pumps. Ken Lewis http://neksiwel.20m.com/

<snip> I have compared a new pump to an old >> one. The wear on the impeller blades is very evident . So an >> electric driven water pump might prove a healthy gain in FE (fuel >> economy). > > A worn impeller is caused by corrosion and/or cavitation. Neglecting > to change the coolant as specified is often a contributing factor, or > it could be poor quality materials in the manufacturing process. > > Allan > -- > 1991 Vanagon GL > >


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