Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:43:23 -0800
Reply-To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump
In-Reply-To: <000f01c873d0$b2ccfef0$6a01a8c0@DADSTOSHIBA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Bigger bore and shorter stroke is 'undersquare', smaller bore and longer
stroke is 'undersquare'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> I confuse easily but I think the short stroke, large bore design is
> considered under square. Yes, the Vanagon being under square keeps piston
> speeds low for a given RPM but it is working and working hard. How many
> modern cars use most of the available horse power to achieve highway
> speeds? Yes, properly taken care of the engine does not seem to mind but
> if your foot is down, it is working.
>
> While the engine may not mind, the accessories and their bearings are
> getting a real work out. And since these bearings can not be re-lubed,
> their life can be shortened. That poor alternator may be doing 10,000 rpm.
>
>
> As for anti freeze having abrasives, why else would silica and silicates,
> (beach sand) be an ingredient. Have you taken a part cooling systems where
> someone thought straight anti-freeze was a good thing? It is amazing the
> stuff that collects. How about the residue from Dex-cool? Like some type
> of plastic scrubbers.
>
> Yes corrosion and erosion are different things. Both can be a problem. So
> can cylinder liner cavitations erosion. This is a particular problem on
> Diesels. Just ask Ford power Stroke owners that have replaced engines.
>
> If you really want to get crazy with antifreeze, jump into the Diesel
> truck world. You can really go crazy here.
>
> As for water pump life, many cars need pumps long before 100,000 miles.
> Usually it is a seal failure but smaller pumps now also go through
> bearings.
>
> I have owned FUN BUS since new. The first pump went at 49,000 miles. Seal
> leak. Was replaced under warranty. Next pump was replaced while traveling
> to Alaska, 96,000 miles. Developed a loud squeal. I replaced that one in a
> campground in Michigan. Both times VW blue coolant was used. At 135,000
> miles I flushed the system and changed over to Dex-Cool. That pump went to
> almost 210,000 miles.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Daniel - Shazam
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:54 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump
>
> A waterboxer engine is a pretty oversquare engine.......meaning short
> stroke, large bore, and 4,000 rpm is just a nice spin. It's not
> 'working'
> to turn 4K rpm.
>
> Anti-corrosion additives in anti-freeze are abrasive ?????
> I think you should offer some documentation or something to back up that
> claim.
> Don't mean to be offensive, but did you just pull that out of the air ? or
> did you read it somewhere ?
> The engines I service must not have a problem since I use a small amount
> of
> water soluble oil in the water/a-frz mixture, and I just don't ever have
> corrosion problems. Of course I needs changing on a regular basis. Every
> two years is the long standing standard.
>
> You're using the word 'corrosion' and 'erosion' interchangeably - they are
> different things.
> Corrosion gets to a lot of cooling system parts all right !
> I've seen cast aluminum hose connection points on diesel vanagon water
> pump
> housings rotted completely through. Aluminum under hoses seems to really
> corrode 'nicely.'
>
> Waterboxer water pumps do seem to last only about 70K miles.
> Why would that be I wonder ?
> All kinds of other engines have water pumps spinning just as fast and they
> last much longer.
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Dennis Haynes
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump
>
> Water definitely erodes piping systems and other parts it moves through.
> Water jets can be used to cut steel and concrete. Cooling system erosion
> is a common source of failures. What do you think really happens to heater
> cores and often radiators? The erosion wears the tubes making them thin
> enough to leak. Automotive coolants can make things worse as part of the
> corrosion control package is abrasives. These abrasives are also what
> wears out the seal set. On the Vanagon, things are made worse as the
> engine is often working at some 4,000 rpm. The water pump is spinning
> almost twice as fast. No wonder those bearings often say no more. Using
> high mineral tap water also adds to the water wear problem.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Kenneth Lewis
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:15 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Electric Water Pump
>
> Allan,
> It's a mystery to me how a fluid could erode the metal impeller. I stay on
> top of coolant changes so I don't think it was that. I have the distinct
> impression that failure rates did drop significantly when I switched from
> Italian to German made water pumps.
> Ken Lewis
> http://neksiwel.20m.com/
>
> <snip> I have compared a new pump to an old
> >> one. The wear on the impeller blades is very evident . So an
> >> electric driven water pump might prove a healthy gain in FE (fuel
> >> economy).
> >
> > A worn impeller is caused by corrosion and/or cavitation. Neglecting
> > to change the coolant as specified is often a contributing factor, or
> > it could be poor quality materials in the manufacturing process.
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1991 Vanagon GL
> >
> >
>
--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL
1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
Crescent Beach, BC
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
| 
