Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 03:05:04 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine Conversions
In-Reply-To: <021e01c87d99$73cde200$6401a8c0@DJZL7KF1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hmm, it's a good thing I don't take anything to heart via email,
otherwise I'd have to say you kinda hurt my feelings in somehow
supposing that we're "playing" rather than producing or marketing...
although I fully understand why you might think so. It's true we
haven't been doing much marketing recently really. I'm working on all
the deliverables for the Bostig 2.0 revision launch which should be
happening later this month, so it's almost time to see everything. But
just so you don't have to speculate any longer, I'll bring you out of
the cold and toward what's actually going on here.
We've been heads down working on deliveries of the Bostig Core kits,
and a few turnkeys here and there, but mostly a ton of development
work has been going on. We're refining, redefining, and improving all
aspects of the conversion and the business itself so we can take a
stab at seeing black in 08. 52 conversions over 4 years is pretty bad,
but from another perspective it's really good... and I have a certain
aversion to selling things that offer average or below average value..
which is actually a character flaw in business as it turns out.
Anyhow in this grand experiment that is Bostig, we've gone from a
couple guys with an idea that we wanted to pursue, and had to try and
learn by ourselves how to do everything.. while it's true that I've
been able to apply much of what I've learned previously too, the
amount I've had to learn on top of it to even begin to make this all
feasible easily starts to eclipse what I knew coming in... which is
really great by itself.. it was either this, or go back to school and
get a masters.. but this is WAY more fun, and I've learned WAY more
than I would have pursuing a grad degree.. at least in comparison to
friends that took the former route and casual comparison anyhow.
Taking it from barely eaking by to stable business is nothing short of
almost impossible, since that has to be done at the same time as all
of the other bjillion aspects like actual production, development,
and silly things like staying fed. The market is too small for the
level of complexity of the product we are developing. It's simply not
worth it from any point of view other than the challenge of trying to
do the almost impossible.. and trying to do it really well.
You're point about the other conversions having multiple vendors being
an upside is understandable, but missing one important observation.
From all that I've been learning and observing I think that a single
entity, with cohesive development and direction, and more importantly
centralized control and utilization of information will perform better
in the environment and scope at which this market exists than
otherwise. But it's not really important what I think. It will be for
others to judge for themselves as they see the latest results over the
next month or two as we roll out the Bostig 2.0 stuff. Hopefully they
will see that both our pace of development and scope are completely
different than the other vendors you speak of.
Additionally, because we are the only ones handling all aspects within
one brain-trust, if we were idiots it would fail horribly and
quickly... but if we aren't idiots(which I'm still reserving judgment
on because most of the time I'm nearly 100% sure I'm an idiot ha) then
the output/work we do will be extraordinary in comparison with what
else is out there, and hopefully we'll achieve new levels of
completeness of thought since we are responsible for the entirely of
it's development, planning, and production. For instance, when we
first got started, I was under the impression that the other
conversions suffered from one chief flaw from an ideological
standpoint. I felt that they were surely missing one of the most
important areas of attention, which was that it isn't just about
choosing a replacement engine. It's also just as important to address
the engine management side of things. Not only that, but you have to
consider both at multiple stages such as pre-sale, install, and
maintenance. You can have the greatest engine ever known to man, but
if you have crappy old wires, or don't have control of the engine
management to tailor strategy to serve your implementation... well it
doesn't matter how great your engine is. If either of the two main
areas of attention are weak at any stage, well you're only as strong
as that weak link... that's what I thought when we first got going.
But then I realized what I'd also missed.
There is one more equally important part of the equation, which if
left a weakness can ruin the product of any really good combination of
the first two aspects across any of the stages as well. There aren't
two parts across 3 stages... it isn't just engine mechanicals and
engine management.. there are three parts. Engine mechanicals, engine
management, AND the operator, across all stages of involvement
pre-sale, install, and maintenance. The one thing lacking in a big
way is a concerted effort to really educate and train operators, and
provide them with the precise information they need to reduce risk,
and improve the system as a whole... I thought we had already started
work on the "wholistic" approach to conversions when we were the first
guys to address engine management and try and apply the same level of
importance as mechanicals, and regard the maintenance stage as just as
important as the install and initial decision making stages.. but
still we were missing that last piece. In retrospect it seems so
obvious.. and it's honestly a bit embarrassing that we got this far
without spotting it as the huge upside improvement potential that it
is.. but better late than never I suppose.
So in any case, in addition to the big revisions in the 2.0 from an
electro-mechanical standpoint, from the manufacturing standpoint, and
from the engine management standpoint, we're also now tackling in a
big way the proper informing of the operator. In the 2.0, we are
aiming to have each operator at the end of their builds informed with
3 pronged information about each important aspect of a conversion, at
each stage... that is worth knowing to reduce total risk. They will
have the most comprehensive combination of mechanicals, management,
and information ever assembled for a conversion... by a lot. They
should be able to answer, what, why, and how about everything
important to the conversion at any stage in it's lifecycle. The
biggest problem would be since the amount of information that needs to
be covered by including this 3x3x3 information architecture is of
course large... it might be lot's of time/work/money wasted if we
weren't sure it is the right approach... but the good news is, we are
already seeing this approach work.
The Bostig Core first install groups have really served well in that
regard. These guys are not having problems building their own
turnkeys, sourcing their own engines etc because they have been
provided the right information to do so.. and compared to what will
eventually be covered they got by on really scant information at that.
The majority of the information deliverables are still being built...
but I think their own apprehension about being able to do the build
disappears, and their confidence and understanding skyrockets... these
guys(I hope to be forced to say people eventually by having a few
women core builders)end up really knowing and eventually understanding
their conversions. This is something the DIY crowd is also rewarded
with if they persevere and work both smart and hard, BUT I think the
success rate will be much higher, and the amounts of time, money,
effort, and risk are significantly reduced with this unified
masterplan approach(unless the plan or execution is junk then the
whole thing falls flat on its face ha). All of this happens while also
increasing the quality of implementation and end results. This is
because they simply follow the workflow, and processes laid out by all
of the focussed development work concerted by a single vendor, which
has also never happened before.
We provide everything that makes sense to, and still handle the
complete wiring harness build, but for the 2.0 it's designed from
scratch for our application and built specifically to put a zetec in a
vanagon, no re-routing, no re-pinning, a complete,custom, brand new
harness designed and built just for this purpose(this is/was of course
impossible at the production volumes we're talking about, until we
actually pulled it off to prove it wasn't impossible afterall).
But the addition of the 3x3x3 scoped, operator inclusive conversion...
this is where the value really starts to grow. The whole give them a
fish(actually sell them a fish I guess) vs. sell them the tools and
know-how to allow them to fish like we do is a huge value compared to
not doing so. It can make situations trivial that could otherwise be
showstoppers. It empowers the owners and repowers the vans.. all
vanagon nuts appreciate self sufficiency more than you're average
bear... so why not include/address/enable that too? I would guess
that no other group of people are more eager to learn and embrace this
kind of information than vanagon nuts. Some people love it so much
they don't actually do much with it and just sit around conversing
with other vanagon nuts about this type of information!
It seems to me that not only is there value in the information that we
pass along, but that it is actually really fun and rewarding to
understand how this stuff works... it's not hard, it's not
complicated... but there is a lot to it, and it has to be broken down
for easy consumption.. something which can take enormous amounts of
courage and effort to do without really good guidance. On top of that
it's much more efficient to have a couple people pull together really
thorough information and really make a point on it's accessibility vs.
the virtual every man for himself approach. The info might be shared,
but it is still the case that enormous amounts of repeat work and
re-discovery go into other approaches, that by definition alone is
less efficient without even beginning to examine the results.
So anyhow, as a payoff for reading this mess, I threw a couple links
to some draft materials that nobody else outside Bostig and our inner
circle have seen yet... so you guys can have a look at what we've been
doing in our play time. As we roll out more, and as soon as the new
website is up and ready I'll be sure to follow-up lest Scott think
we're just playing on a dyno all day long with our mythical
conversions(couldn't if we wanted to, it's $100 an hour, so it's in
and out... very focussed and not nearly as much fun as it could be,
hey maybe that's why nobody else even bothers to use a dyno ha, I'll
glady sac my time and money for accuracy and real information over
speculation any day).
Jim Akiba
Bostig Core master parts list current v1.0 revision(6MB)
http://www.bostig.com/files/Bostig_Core_Master_Partslist_r2.pdf
Bostig Core Cooling Sub-Kit(#2 of 7) Assembly DVD sample(115MB)
http://www.bostig.com/files/rough_cut_SK-C.wmv
Bostig 2.0 all new one-piece, 1045 steel billet flywheel
http://www.bostig.com/files/rev2_flywheel.JPG
http://www.bostig.com/files/rev2_flywheel_back.JPG
Bostig 2.0 mounting setup CAD drawing, increases departure angle even
with full capacity rev 2.0 wet sump, even further gains with dry sump.
Hydraulic mounts, cradle provisioned for optional rock bars to tie
forward and aft.
http://www.bostig.com/files/rev2_cradle.jpg
On 3/3/08, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you are addressing my comments , well....of course you don't get the
> adapter plate from any car parts dealer.
>
> Nor the flywheel I imagine - though Kennedy probably sells an adapter and
> flywheel for that engine to a vanagon transaxle, they do that for scads of
> engine types, onto vw tranaxles, that's 'what they do.' I image you could
> get something from them for that part.
>
>
>
> And you could fab your own engine mounting system, exhaust system, and air
> filter system and so forth.
>
> Must be that there's not a lot of history of people doing that.
>
> It's surely doable.
>
> 52 kits.
> One could get the impression there's more 'play time' going on on the dyno
> than on production and marketing of kits, but that's fine !!
>
> I'm sure that part is MUCH more fun.
>
>
>
> The world low cost engine is excellent. For sure. No doubt about it.
>
> You know how some people resist Subaru in a vanagon because it's not german
> and Volkswagen. ? .....being very anti-American car I think I resist the
> 'ford' aspect of it.
>
> I have always sought the 'perfect' donor engine - about the right size
> and power, readily available, inexpensive, and durable - this would meet all
> of those requirements.
>
> I'll bet I could sell lots of those kits.
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com <http://www.turbovans.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>
> Peter Young
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:27 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>
> Subject: Re: Engine Conversions
>
>
>
> True, there are several choices for Subaru conversions but this probably has
> to do with all the different ways to do the conversion. With the Bostig kit
> parts aren't really a concern because the adapter plate that enables the
> zetec to mate with the stock VW tranny is the only engine part that you
> can't get from any ol' car parts dealer. Every other component on the engine
> is a stock zetec engine part (except the exhaust, but again any exhaust shop
> worth its salt could handle that). The other benefit is that the zetec
> engine is a "world car" component - meaning that Ford uses it in all of the
> focuses, and Ford sells the focus in every market that it is in around the
> world. So, in theory, if you were to convert your westy into a amphibious
> vehicle and circumnavigate the globe in it you would be able to find parts
> nearly everywhere you went. Not that you would need them - according to the
> Bostig website, they have been trying to destroy the engine in the test
> vehicle for years to no avail!
>
>
>
> I also found on the website that only 52 kits have been sold so far, which
> probably explains why so few people have seen one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008
> 10:01 AM
>
>
>
| 
