Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:06:18 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad Fuel Pump?
In-Reply-To: <234436.68067.qm@web52704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
Not meaning to jump on you at all, but I am always semi-appalled at the
'guessing at things' nature , or total lack of 'proper diagnostic
procedures' I observe on this list.
It's really easy to test the fuel pump - several ways to do that.
You could have a very worn or dead or near dead fuel pump.
You could have restricted fuel tank making the pump noisy due to how hard
it's struggling, but that is rare in vanagons.
Here's what I would do if it was me, or this was in my shop -
First, check the durn fuel filter - duh.
Just remove it, empty it out backwards, inspecting for junk. See if it's
restricted, if it is, replace with a new one. Some vanagond have two fuel
filters, one pre, and one post fuel pump. Yours originally just had small
square one before the fuel pump, between the tank and pump.
And depending on what I found with the f. filter, I'd then try to start it.
Or I'd pop on one of my half dozen spare known good fuel pumps, and see
what that does.
And there is always checking fuel pressure at the engine, with a tool I
gather you don't have.
And testing the engine out isn't hard either, whether that's just seeing how
it runs, or checking compression or whathaveyou.
But I'm discouraged for the poor vanagons seeing people guessing at 'what
part it might be' ...and very little sense it appears too often about any
idea on diagnostic procedures, which don't even require a lot of fancy
tools.
Same for shops too...man, 70 % of vanagon owners in the US can't get a
really hard working competent shop to work on it. And they are not that
complex or difficult to deal with really - vanagons.
My bottom line - start at the fuel filter.
Sorry to rag- but it seems there are so many simple things I can do, that in
15 minutes will cause the diagnostic portion to leap forward so easily to
reveal what might be going on - like if I suspect a clogged fuel tank ( it
happens on vanagons, and all the tanks are now 20 + years old if original -
my own 83 west has a collapsed tank which I removed ) ..it takes me 20
minutes to rig up a gas can with feed and return fuel hoses to it to run the
van off another fuel source. If the van then runs fine, I know right away
the fuel tank is the problem - like it's child's play. Or try a
known-good used fuel pump. Which you should have around anyway for a back
up, like a spare for trips and so forth. And I'm not getting that many
people see the value of simple 'bypass & substitute' as a diagnostic
strategy.
So I am using very basic and simple 'substitute and bypass' as a
diagnostic strategy, yet I read all the time on here about people that can't
seem to do those simple things, instead they guess at what parts to throw at
it.
So yeah, it's frustrating to see how simple it can be, yet how hard it can
be for people to do these simple things - like test a starter with a remote
starter switch, or test for injector signal with a simple little NOID light-
almost like people were wondering about tires and handling and tire
pressure, but they never heard of a tire pressure gauge.
Again, sorry to rag !!! ..really lol. But try to think 'diagnostic
procedure' and not so much 'what new part should I try."
It'll save you money, and make you smarter about fixing your vanagon.
And hell, even professional shops have trouble with ordinary, basic,
time-test-and-true simple diagnostics - even shops throw parts at cars
hoping to get lucky, and vanagons are not even very complex at all
actually., Sadly, modern shops expect to hook up a scan tool that will
point to one area or part ( not always accurate either - there all kinds of
failure modes OBD-II can't detect ) , a capability vanagons don't have - so
perhaps they've lost good old fashioned sleuthing with a digital volt-ohm
meter and some simple test devices.
AND...that is NOT to say that there are not brilliant vanagon people
around, there are, very much so, but I just want to encourage understanding
systems and doing simple tests, and to not be 'what part is it' mentality.
It is so often not 'some part' that just failed.
It's usually a combination of age and neglect, and often cheap parts
installed...in any case, it's always "
"A blockage or leakage of fluids ( including gases ) or electrons. "
hope you figure it out, and I'd sure start at the fuel filter.
scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Stuart Jeff
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:49 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Bad Fuel Pump?
Hello Everyone,
Pretend my fuel pump is bad and I left my van sitting for four weeks without
starting it. Now say, I go to start it - what should happen?
Here's what I've actually experienced - pardon my limited wrenching
knowledge. My van is an 83.5 water-cooled Westy with a WBX engine that had
the heads done 60k miles ago. I've owned and driven it around 3000 miles
without incident. The only symptom of concern that I've heard is that there
has been a loud buzzing from the region under the sliding door for quite
some time. It is the sort of buzzing that one would hear if you left your
keys in the ignition.
About four weeks ago I was driving on the highway at 60mph when all of the
sudden my van starts to slow down. It was as if I was running out of gas
(granted I've never run out of gas but this is what I would imagine it to be
like). The van didn't stop completely but I couldn't go more than around 20
mph. The engine is still sounding fine but I have no power. I limped about a
mile to my office in first and second gear and parked the van. I noticed
that the buzzing had quit at that point. I left the van in that spot and
haven't touched it until today. Today, I went out there and decided to see
what happened if I cranked it. I turned the key, the dash lit up, buzzes,
and I hear a rhymthic clicking sound. I assume this is the starter. The
engine never turned over or seemed to make any attempt to crank. My interior
lights and stereo continue to work fine and as far as I know my starter +
starter battery is in perfect working order.
Now my thinking was that the buzzing was the fuel pump and that fuel pump is
now dead. The optimist in me says that if I just replace that fuel pump then
all will be well. The pesimist in me is afraid that my engine has gone and
died for real. The loss in power but still being able to limp another mile
has me concerned about a deeper problem. Also, this may just be from a
nightmare but I have a vague memory of brief black smoke at the point when I
lost power. I wouldn't swear by it but it is a fear.
So what would your next step be? Replace the fuel pump? Get on the waiting
list at Vanaru? Some other option I haven't thought of?
Thank you all for playing along at home!
Stuart
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/2008
1:41 PM
