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Date:         Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:03:39 -0800
Reply-To:     Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Bad Fuel Pump?
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <00bd01c88484$ed081ae0$6401a8c0@DJZL7KF1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I too am sometimes appalled at the 'guessing at things' nature , or total lack of 'proper diagnostic procedures' I observe on this list. Sadly, your post is a prime example IMHO.

Instead of swapping pumps or messing/guessing with the fuel filter, or worrying about blockage in the tank, a simple fuel delivery test should be the first step. If it passes then that other stuff is not the problem and you have bypassed a lot of possibilities in one step.

Remove fuel return line coming from fuel pressure regulator and stick it into an empty jug. Pull the fuel pump relay and plug a jumper wire into pins 30-87 of the empty relay socket to make the pump run. Run for 30 seconds exactly. Measure how much fuel was pumped into the jug from the regulator return line. Should be at least 16 ounces. If so, good to go.

It is best to measure the delivery rate will also watching the fuel pressure with a fuel pressure gauge, $10-20.

The pump needs to be able to provide the required pressure and fuel volume AT THE SAME TIME and that is what the fuel delivery test is designed to check. If it can't do that then it is time to narrow down why. If it can, then it is time to move on.

Mark

Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote: > Hi, > > Not meaning to jump on you at all, but I am always semi-appalled at the > 'guessing at things' nature , or total lack of 'proper diagnostic > procedures' I observe on this list. > > > > It's really easy to test the fuel pump - several ways to do that. > > You could have a very worn or dead or near dead fuel pump. > > You could have restricted fuel tank making the pump noisy due to how hard > it's struggling, but that is rare in vanagons. > > > > Here's what I would do if it was me, or this was in my shop - > > First, check the durn fuel filter - duh. > > Just remove it, empty it out backwards, inspecting for junk. See if it's > restricted, if it is, replace with a new one. Some vanagond have two fuel > filters, one pre, and one post fuel pump. Yours originally just had small > square one before the fuel pump, between the tank and pump. > > > > And depending on what I found with the f. filter, I'd then try to start it. > Or I'd pop on one of my half dozen spare known good fuel pumps, and see > what that does. > > And there is always checking fuel pressure at the engine, with a tool I > gather you don't have. > > And testing the engine out isn't hard either, whether that's just seeing how > it runs, or checking compression or whathaveyou. > > > > But I'm discouraged for the poor vanagons seeing people guessing at 'what > part it might be' ...and very little sense it appears too often about any > idea on diagnostic procedures, which don't even require a lot of fancy > tools. > > Same for shops too...man, 70 % of vanagon owners in the US can't get a > really hard working competent shop to work on it. And they are not that > complex or difficult to deal with really - vanagons. > > > > My bottom line - start at the fuel filter. > > Sorry to rag- but it seems there are so many simple things I can do, that in > 15 minutes will cause the diagnostic portion to leap forward so easily to > reveal what might be going on - like if I suspect a clogged fuel tank ( it > happens on vanagons, and all the tanks are now 20 + years old if original - > my own 83 west has a collapsed tank which I removed ) ..it takes me 20 > minutes to rig up a gas can with feed and return fuel hoses to it to run the > van off another fuel source. If the van then runs fine, I know right away > the fuel tank is the problem - like it's child's play. Or try a > known-good used fuel pump. Which you should have around anyway for a back > up, like a spare for trips and so forth. And I'm not getting that many > people see the value of simple 'bypass & substitute' as a diagnostic > strategy. > > So I am using very basic and simple 'substitute and bypass' as a > diagnostic strategy, yet I read all the time on here about people that can't > seem to do those simple things, instead they guess at what parts to throw at > it. > > So yeah, it's frustrating to see how simple it can be, yet how hard it can > be for people to do these simple things - like test a starter with a remote > starter switch, or test for injector signal with a simple little NOID light- > almost like people were wondering about tires and handling and tire > pressure, but they never heard of a tire pressure gauge. > > Again, sorry to rag !!! ..really lol. But try to think 'diagnostic > procedure' and not so much 'what new part should I try." > > ..................


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