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Date:         Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:00:45 -0800
Reply-To:     sam mccarthy <sfcompost@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         sam mccarthy <sfcompost@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: vanagon Digest - 8 Mar 2008 (#2008-289)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Neil, Yes, my van was a Westy. As to the the propane tank, it wasn't an issue. You can build plenty of clearance there. But, the brake line, and as I remember, the clutch fluid line were close and needed shielding. As others have mentioned, the stock diesel hangers seem to work fine and are a good idea to model. For some reason I discarded these having decided to go with the forward design. When it came time to build one at the back I didn't have the stock hardware to model. I did not mean to suggest by "hanging it with rubber along the rear" that you wouldn't use the stock locations from which to hang, just that you should use rubber hangers rather than hard mount to the engine. And I agree with the others who would suggest that the factory had likely worked out the vibration issues with their setup at considerable time and expense and following their design is wise. I'll stand by my original statement however, that going forward is much easier if building from scratch, and unless I was just incredibly lucky, less prone to vibration problems. Most exhaust shops have vast experience with exhausts designed like the forward one, that is, down from the engine and directly away along the center-line of the car, rather than wrapping down and around the engine. In any case, the forward design is very feasible and is a interesting departure from the normal way of doing things. That appeals to me generally.

Alistair, I'm not having any luck finding Frank's details on the oil pan baffle he constructed for the diesel oil pan, or on the oil pump pickup tube and clearance for it from the bottom of the pan. Any help? On the other hand, I have enjoyed the info on your site and Frank' contributions immensely. Thanks for the work. Sam M

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:33:17 -0800 From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: I4 conversion exhaust

Hi Sam.

I wondered, just the other night, about routing the exhaust forward and out the side (but not in so much detail). Maybe I had seen it on-line. As you likely knew, I too have the hole that the heater tube ran through.

I wonder if this routing would take the exhaust too close to the LP tank?

Was your "German" exhaust set up on a Westy?

The other concern is that I wound up running a replacement brake line (steel) over that heater hole. (brake line was from a FLAPS and was too long) It follows the opening. It doesn't go across it. I wonder if heat from the exhuast would affect it? I also wonder how the local emissions testing centre would take to the exhaust running out the side?

Interesting to get your insights and experience.

And thanks for pointers to Franks stuff. I know he has done some thorough and accurate research.

Neil.

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 7:58 PM, sam mccarthy <sfcompost@yahoo.com> wrote: > Neil, with my I4 vanagon I had 2 different exhaust designs with radically different results. The first set up I had built at a exhaust shop using an old Dasher dual outlet manifold, which angles toward the front of the van. I had the shop follow the example I had seen on a German engine conversion site which ran the exhaust forward through the aircooled heater tube hole, forward to a muffler hung under the center of the van, into a 180 degree bend back toward the rear and then out to the driver side ahead of the rear wheel. This required a simple layer of sheet metal as a heat-shield to keep the heat away from the floor, but worked very well and was almost too quiet. No vibration problems whatsoever. My only concern was that the cat was a bit too close to the transaxle. And, I liked having the exhaust coming out of the side of the van, as it told those discerning van-heads that this was no normal air-cooled van. > When that exhaust began to fail, I had the same shop build another one. When I requested they build it further away from the transaxle, they suggested going to the stock location, and thought they could do it for similar costs. It was a mistake. Not only is this a much more costly design to construct, but vibration problems are a too often occurrence. It took three redesigns, and a lot more cash before the vibrations and resulting cracking were solved. And, with the short length of the stock design, it is often quite loud. I think the secret really is using a flexible coupling between the downpipe and the bend to the back of the van, and using rubber hangers to suspend the system along the back of the van. > > With my TDI install, I would rather go forward once again, but the 1990 body I'm using, there is no heater tube hole to route through. I'll have to go rearward. > If you are looking for the right manifold to use, take a look at Frank Grunthaners' post in the archives, or within Vanagon.com as he has done extensive testing on the various possibilities and found that the Audi 80/90 dual outlet manifolds are the best. The Dasher manifold I used worked well, but doesn't flow all that well. > Good luck, I hope this helps, > Sam M >

-- Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"

http://web.mac.com/tubaneil http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/

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Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> wrote:--------------

Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 20:28:37 -0800 From: Alistair Bell Subject: Re: I4 conversion exhaust

let me chip in...

I have found the stock diesel muffler hanger system to be fine. No cracking or such in 14 years. I have replaced the rubber isolation mounts twice. no flex coupling in actual pipe. I used the stock diesel exh manifold, pipe and muffler for quite a few years, then switched to the Audi 89/90 4 into 2 manifold and an aftermarket muffler. But still used the stock diesel muffler hangers.

Friend with similar conversion has had many cracked pipes with rubber hangers supporting muffler. I believe having the exhaust system coupled to the engine all the way is the best system.

some info is on my website.

Alistair


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