Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:38:33 -0800
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Building carrier (load bar) Square or rectangular tube steel?
In-Reply-To: <47DC21ED.708@charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
See. This is what I mean by "more educated minds". And for sure
opinions and thoughts from others with more or different experience.
Doing an engine conversion like this (yes I was warned!) encompasses
quite a few areas of knowledge. And is pushing me to learn more which
is great. Unfortunately, some areas I lack a total background in. Uh,
like I failed Physics 11. And Algebra 11. And when I requested to take
welding class, my HS councillor told me to try Algebra again. ??
Yeesh! --- ;^)
Going by pics of someones elses design to make the carrier is a
challenge in that I want to do it as "right" as I can. No negative
reflection on the original designer. I like the way the design looks
and he has been helpful. Still a challenge, though pics REALLY help.
I would have been in the dark with wet matches had I not seen them.
I'm sure mild steel will do the job. This carrier will likely be
over-built when I'm done with it.
Extra weight and material costs be damned! --- :^)
Neil.
On 3/15/08, John Rodgers <inua@charter.net> wrote:
> My experience with the tube strength issues comes mostly form my work
> years ago with welding on small aircraft airframes. Most that I worked
> with were constructed of round tubular steel. It has been a long time,
> but I seem to remember that most were made of 4130 chromaloy steel., a
> very strong, tough metal. Welded up properly a section made of this was
> practically indestructible in compression loads. But bending loads were
> another matter, and that applies to most any round tube. Square or
> rectangular had limited application. They were used, but not for full
> frame construction. Those kinds of tubes has special applications.
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
> neil N wrote:
> > Thanks John.
> >
> > This is also what the metal guy expressed, so I was curious to "hear"
> > what more educated minds had to say. FWIW, the stock air cooled (and
> > WBX I think) is very much a rectangular shape. From memory, looks like
> > 1" by .5" Obviously designed to handle L to R movement.
> >
> > I have some scraps of hot rolled 2"x2" and plate steel (that the metal
> > guy kindly gave me) that I can try my hand at for practice fitting and
> > welding. I will play with wood scraps to find my angles first. It
> > looks like it's all 45's with the exception of the 90 needed to hang
> > from the subframe.
> >
> > Once I get the engine at the right "height", and make some test pieces
> > out of wood, I should be able to determine how long the long side of
> > the rectangle can be before the bottom of the carrier hangs too low
> > below oil pan.
> >
> > (he says thinking outloud to no one in particular --- ;^)
> >
> > Neil.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 10:35 AM, John Rodgers <inua@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Neil,
> >>
> >> I'm not an engineer, but I would think that a tube with rectangular
> >> crossection would have the greater strength, depending on the directions
> >> loads are applied. Just my opinion.
> >>
> >> John Rodgers
> >> 88 GL Driver
> >> Chelsea, AL - where it's thundering, lightening, and pouring down rain.
> >> Ahhh! Spring showers!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> neil N wrote:
> >> > Hi all.
> >> >
> >> > I am ready to fabricate the engine carrier for my 15 degree Jetta
> conversion.
> >> >
> >> > Is 1/8" - 2"x2" hot rolled tube rigid enough?
> >> >
> >> > Or should I use rectangular tube? ( 2"x 2.2.5" ? 2" x 2.5" ?)
> >> >
> >> > Will the rectangular shape add strength/stability ?
> >> >
> >> > For sure 2" is needed for base of Fox mounts I'm using.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > TIA,
> >> >
> >> > Neil.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
> >> >
> >> > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> >> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
> >
> > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
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