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Date:         Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:48:13 -0700
Reply-To:     neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Building carrier (load bar) Square or rectangular tube steel?
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
In-Reply-To:  <054f01c886ea$934cc3d0$6401a8c0@DJZL7KF1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Not sure what you mean by "cut out", but I'd rather not modify the oil pan to accomodate a support. If that's what you mean.

I have a spare air cooled support and had considered using it. The jury is still out on that one.

For sure I referred to it for "inspiration". Sadly no WBX support to look at, but I don't think the air cooled is too different.

I was planning on cutting up some pieces of wood to get a general idea of how things would fit. (angles mostly) I think I'm dealing with 45's and 90's though.

I'll find out if my trial positioning of the engine is working. I have been using a level on top of the clutch housing to determine how it should sit. Obviously it can rotate L and R a little without a support. I'll be curious to see if my trial positioning will yield 45's at the support. I have the engine height figured out anyways.

And for sure was planning on at the very least marking things off in situ, then tacking in the basement, then trial fitting and so on. Not too confident in my welding, so would prefer not to be hauling my welder up to the carport to tack stuff under the van while dry mounted.

This is all very interesting!

Neil.

On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi neil, > > Cost, especially a one time only cost, isn't that big a deal. > > Excessie unnessary weight is though. > > Why are you not using the rear engine mounting bar on your 85 donor? > > It's a fine piece to start with. > > Is there any cut-out in your oil pan at all ? > > Scott > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > neil N > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:39 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Building carrier (load bar) Square or rectangular tube steel? > > > > > > See. This is what I mean by "more educated minds". And for sure > > opinions and thoughts from others with more or different experience. > > > > Doing an engine conversion like this (yes I was warned!) encompasses > > quite a few areas of knowledge. And is pushing me to learn more which > > is great. Unfortunately, some areas I lack a total background in. Uh, > > like I failed Physics 11. And Algebra 11. And when I requested to take > > welding class, my HS councillor told me to try Algebra again. ?? > > Yeesh! --- ;^) > > > > Going by pics of someones elses design to make the carrier is a > > challenge in that I want to do it as "right" as I can. No negative > > reflection on the original designer. I like the way the design looks > > and he has been helpful. Still a challenge, though pics REALLY help. > > > > I would have been in the dark with wet matches had I not seen them. > > > > I'm sure mild steel will do the job. This carrier will likely be > > over-built when I'm done with it. > > > > Extra weight and material costs be damned! --- :^) > > > > Neil. > > > > > > > > > > On 3/15/08, John Rodgers <inua@charter.net> wrote: > > > My experience with the tube strength issues comes mostly form my work > > > years ago with welding on small aircraft airframes. Most that I worked > > > with were constructed of round tubular steel. It has been a long time, > > > but I seem to remember that most were made of 4130 chromaloy steel., a > > > very strong, tough metal. Welded up properly a section made of this was > > > practically indestructible in compression loads. But bending loads were > > > another matter, and that applies to most any round tube. Square or > > > rectangular had limited application. They were used, but not for full > > > frame construction. Those kinds of tubes has special applications. > > > > > > John Rodgers > > > 88 GL Driver > > > neil N wrote: > > > > Thanks John. > > > > > > > > This is also what the metal guy expressed, so I was curious to "hear" > > > > what more educated minds had to say. FWIW, the stock air cooled (and > > > > WBX I think) is very much a rectangular shape. From memory, looks like > > > > 1" by .5" Obviously designed to handle L to R movement. > > > > > > > > I have some scraps of hot rolled 2"x2" and plate steel (that the metal > > > > guy kindly gave me) that I can try my hand at for practice fitting and > > > > welding. I will play with wood scraps to find my angles first. It > > > > looks like it's all 45's with the exception of the 90 needed to hang > > > > from the subframe. > > > > > > > > Once I get the engine at the right "height", and make some test pieces > > > > out of wood, I should be able to determine how long the long side of > > > > the rectangle can be before the bottom of the carrier hangs too low > > > > below oil pan. > > > > > > > > (he says thinking outloud to no one in particular --- ;^) > > > > > > > > Neil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 10:35 AM, John Rodgers <inua@charter.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Neil, > > > >> > > > >> I'm not an engineer, but I would think that a tube with rectangular > > > >> crossection would have the greater strength, depending on the > directions > > > >> loads are applied. Just my opinion. > > > >> > > > >> John Rodgers > > > >> 88 GL Driver > > > >> Chelsea, AL - where it's thundering, lightening, and pouring down rain. > > > >> Ahhh! Spring showers! > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> neil N wrote: > > > >> > Hi all. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am ready to fabricate the engine carrier for my 15 degree Jetta > > > conversion. > > > >> > > > > >> > Is 1/8" - 2"x2" hot rolled tube rigid enough? > > > >> > > > > >> > Or should I use rectangular tube? ( 2"x 2.2.5" ? 2" x 2.5" ?) > > > >> > > > > >> > Will the rectangular shape add strength/stability ? > > > >> > > > > >> > For sure 2" is needed for base of Fox mounts I'm using. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > TIA, > > > >> > > > > >> > Neil. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco" > > > >> > > > > >> > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil > > > >> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco" > > > > > > > > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil > > > > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco" > > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil > > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date: 3/14/2008 > 12:33 PM > >

-- Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"

http://web.mac.com/tubaneil http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/


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