Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:09:49 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: Opinions needed. Exhaust pipes too close? PICS
In-Reply-To: <c4e7c5f90803301655o4549bcbcg53d9b931ee27448a@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Yeah you can tack them, I'm sure the welder will appreciate it.. they
like to be handed something, told exactly what you want done(so it's
not his fault if it doesn't work) so they can do it, and then they get
paid and you go away, and the whole thing happens quickly.
You might get some chatter between the two... it would be better if
they don't touch. If you have the option of going with a 90 on the
outside bend instead of the sectioned 180, you could gain yourself
some room and not have to cheat the inside bend("cheat" is the term
used when your cut is not perpendicular to the tangent of the bend,
and hurts flow... although you'll never ever notice for this
application in a million years and cheating is fine, just some spacing
would be nice)
Also make sure to fully weld only the inside of the flange, and have
four outside tacks about 1/8 the circumference of the pipe each, this
is really important with stainless, less so with mild, but will allow
for the different thermal expansion rates on the inboard/outboard side
of the flange to help avoid cracking. You could also flip it and weld
fully outside and tach inside, but the other way round will work
better here for obvious reasons. do they both go into another flange
after this? If so, and it's possible to use a married flange instead
of two divorced flanges to do the job, you can nail the spacing and
you'll never get noise or rubbing.
Also if it's all mild steel, and .065" wall, and you live in an area
where they salt, don't spend too much time, you'll be doing it in
1.5-2 seasons again anyhow.
Looking good Neil..
Jim Akiba
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 7:55 PM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for confirming Mike.
>
> Even though I'm "making it up" as I go along and have some wiggle room
> on remaining parts of exhaust, I would like to get flange/primaries
> lined up as accurately as I can. Good to know I can tack stuff in
> place.
>
> Neil.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:
> > Yes to tacking before bringing to maintain positioning. You don't anything
> > to shift at all.
> >
> > Yes to leaving room for welding inside flange. (so you don't to have to
> > grind off any of the weld from the flange for a flat surface).
> >
> >
> > Mike B.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 5:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opinions needed. Exhaust pipes too close? PICS
> >
> >
> > > Yes that was my thought. To get position where I want it.
> > >
> > > One thing I didn't express here was that I'm just not certain if pipe
> > > should be inserted in flange hole half way (to leave room to weld
> > > inside hole) or if pipe end should be flush with top of flange.
> > >
> > > Neil.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Mike Collum <collum@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> My thought is that by initially tacking them yourself, you are more apt
> > >> to get them "Where" you want them. Of course, you could always discuss
> > >> it with the person who will be doing the final welding beforehand.
> > >>
> > >> Mike
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> neil N wrote:
> > >> > Interesting to note your success with pipes that did touch. I just did
> > >> > a little more tweaking. I got them closer to level, and about a 1/4"
> > >> > gap.
> > >> >
> > >> > The pipes in the images are short, but I will be welding on another 90
> > >> > degree to each, then of course, the rest of the exhaust system. I
> > >> > didn't make that clear in my first post.
> > >> >
> > >> > And speaking of "secure", I'll be incorporating a flex joint and will
> > >> > brace the muffler to engine. Even so, I am glad I'll be getting a pro
> > >> > to do the welds at flange. --- ;^)
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone know if I can tack weld these in place before taking them to
> > >> the welder?
> > >> >
> > >> > I imagine he would do his own tacks, grind off mine, then weld. But
> > >> > I'm not sure of that.
> > >> >
> > >> > Neil.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:
> > >> >> These pipes appear to be very short, will be held very securely and
> > >> the
> > >> >> material is pretty rigid. I doubt it will 'grind holes' where they
> > >> touch,
> > >> >> but a small clearance would prevent even that possibility.
> > >> >> I have had exhaust systems that had similar pipes touching, and
> > >> they
> > >> >> never failed where they touched.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Mike B.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> From: "Jake de Villiers" <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
> > >> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:29 PM
> > >> >> Subject: Re: Opinions needed. Exhaust pipes too close? PICS
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > The vibrations will grind holes in the pipes where they're
> > >> touching. I'd
> > >> >> > move them, myself.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Touching should be fine. Many other vehicle exhaust systems hav
> > >> pipes
> > >> >> >> that
> > >> >> >> touch. Only corrosion-resistance may be affected, if its
> > >> horizontal and
> > >> >> >> tends to trap mud and water. You vertical arrangement shouldn't
> > >> have
> > >> >> >> that
> > >> >> >> issue.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Mike B.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> >> From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
> > >> >> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 1:54 PM
> > >> >> >> Subject: Opinions needed. Exhaust pipes too close? PICS
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > Hi all.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/exhaust
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > In one image I could leave them touching, (contact area small)
> > >> the
> > >> >> >> > other I could fudge the angles but would prefer not to.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > In either case, I'd be cutting these pipes shorter and welding
> > >> 90
> > >> >> >> > degree elbows to them.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Is heat, where pipes touch, a problem? Should they have
> > >> seperation?
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Thanks!
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Neil.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > --
> > >> >> >> > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> > >> >> >> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Jake
> > >> >> > 1984 Vanagon GL
> > >> >> > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> > >> >> > Crescent Beach, BC
> > >> >> > www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> > >> >> > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
> > >> >
> > >> > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> > >> > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
> > >
> > > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> > > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
>
> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
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