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Date:         Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:07:54 -0400
Reply-To:     Jay Chen <jay_chen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jay Chen <jay_chen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards

Hi Bruce, new Westy owner and fellow Vancouverite here!

I just installed GoWesty's child seat tether anchors in my new Westy.

You can see it in the pictures of the Recaro child seat here: http://www.gowesty.com/images/ec/products/large/large_cb07cd6ca93d8e8c40357038ff24511a.jpg http://www.gowesty.com/images/ec/products/large/large_8675841abc1c494567043829a156654a.jpg

It's really just a bolt, and a steel plate with hole, and piece of plastic trim for the rear shelf, but somehow I feel safer buying a part from a licensed seatbelt manufacturer (gowesty) than rigging something up myself. You need a drill and jigsaw to install, but pretty easy and looks factory.

You need to call them to order (part# GVW-TETHER); they're $25.50 each, and it cost me $19.22 to ship 2 of them by USPS Priority to Vancouver (didn't get nailed for brokerage or duty/tax by Canada Post).

Another guy (also in the Vancouver area, I think) welded some anchors for the tether belt: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ttcopley/709367188/

As for the lower restraint, we will use the lap-belt; follow the other's tips on how to get it tight. I've also heard someone suggest using the childseat's LATCH hooks directly on the eyelets where the seatbelts attach to the Van (I've never tried this).

We have the Safeguard child seat (http://www.safeguardseat.com/child/index.htm).

Since both our Land Rover Discovery (and now the Westy) have low-back rear seats, we liked the integral metal frame (most child seats are plastic and rely on the strength of the car seat back/headrest). There were some Britax and Recaro models that made the short-list as well; none of these higher-end seats are available in Canada (WTF?) so we bought ours in the US.

Cheers, Jay

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:44:57 -0700, Shawn Wright <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

>I agree, getting your weight into the seat is necessary to get the lap belt tight. However, the >seat I had required the use of the rear tether when forward facing, which presented a >problem in the Westy. Since all cars since 1990 or so have anchors, these rear tether seats >may be standard now, I don't know, ours is now about 7-8 years old. > >On 30 Mar 2008 at 7:24, Ryan Shawley <easywind1975@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: > >> I can vouch for this, I have a forward facing seat in my Westy that doesn't move >> more than a half inch. The trick is pre-adjusting the lap belt and then putting >> your weight into the seat to compress the bench seat foam. It should look like >> your assaulting the seat to anyone passing by. >> >> Ryan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike" <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 21:03 >> Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards >> >> >> > Apparently you missed this post. It should answer most of the issues you >> > said in your reply to me; >> > >> > >> > >> > Bruce, >> > >> > The top tether strap is only for use in a rear-facing infant seat >> > application, to limit the seat's forward motion in a crash; it wouldn't >> > limit sideways motion at all, no matter which direction it's mounted. >> > The best way to get a tight-fitting seat belt is to place your knee into >> > the seat while cinching the belt as tight as possible. If you have to >> > pre-tighten the belt, then latch it in, due the belt's routing inside the >> > carseat, you still will need to press your weight on your knee into the seat >> > to compress the vehicle's seat foam enough to get the belt to latch very >> > tightly. This trick was shown to me years ago, and it makes a huge >> > difference. Keep those kids safe! Mike B. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Bruce Todd" <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM> >> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:25 AM >> > Subject: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards >> > >> > >> >> I'm hoping the list can help me purchase the appropriate car seat for my >> >> toddler who has outgrown her rear facing infant seat. I drive a 86 Westy >> >> Syncro with the current seat locked by the lap belt to the back bench seat - >> >> it seems pretty secure. >> >> >> >> The convertible seats, which are for children weighing between 22 to 65 >> >> lbs >> >> (depending on the make) are more difficult to anchor securely and appear to >> >> be designed for more modern vehicles with latching systems and tether points. >> >> >> >> Last week we took our first camping trip and I swapped the car seat from our >> >> other vehicle, which is a convertible style seat, and fiddled around with it >> >> to get it to fit. It ended up facing the rear and being relatively snug from >> >> front to back but not to my liking in terms of side to side movement. Part of >> >> the reason for this is it is difficult to cinch the lap belt super tight >> >> because of how the belt travels underneath the child seat. The model of this >> >> seat, which is highly recommended, is a Sunshine Kids Radian - it fits quite >> >> well in our Honda CRV. >> >> >> >> When checking to see whether the seat fit any better frontward facing, I was >> >> disappointed to see that it didn't and was not very snug at all - especially >> >> from side to side. I'm guessing this is the purpose of the top tether on the >> >> seat - to help stabilize the seat. Obviously I would like to find a seat >> >> that fits front or rear facing and works to the specifications it is designed >> >> for. >> >> >> >> Anyway, I open this non-mechanical topic up to wise members of the >> >> Vanagon >> >> list. >> >> >> >> Many thanks, >> >> >> >> Bruce Todd >> >> Vancouver >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels@gmail.com> >> > To: "Mike" <mbucchino@charter.net> >> > Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:54 PM >> > Subject: Re: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety >> > Standards >> > >> > >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> The original poster asked for suggestions on how to more securely anchor >> >> seats in a vehicle never designed for this. I offered my solution. I also >> >> offered that the factory shoulder belts may also provide some solutions. I am >> >> quite certain the chain and assorted fastening links were significantly >> >> stronger than the rear tether straps provided on the car seat. This argument >> >> could go on endlessly, as the reality is there are no 'authoritative sources' >> >> on this issue when it comes to retro-fitting child restraints into vehicles >> >> not designed for them, so we must do the best we can. I checked with several >> >> sources before doing this, and none of them would consider designing a >> >> restraint for liability reasons. I do not claim my solution is the best way >> >> to go, only something to consider, and likely better than using the lap belt >> >> alone, which is explicitly stated as unsafe with many car seats. At the time, >> >> I was comfortable that the seat was as secure in my Westy as it was when >> >> installed in my Jetta, which uses a restraint based on the factory design >> >> added for the 1990 model year. >> >> >> >> I notice you mention your experience with buckling kids in safely, yet >> >> you >> >> don't offer any >> >> constructive advice for the original poster. I would love to hear it, as I do >> >> plan to be driving a Westy when the grand kids arrive. :-) >> >> >> >> As I mentioned, I pulled the junkyard belts myself, and was able to view the >> >> donor van, which had minimal body damage, so I was comfortable with the >> >> condition of the belts. Your point is probably valid, so for those concerned, >> >> GoWesty has the new ones. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Shawn >> >> >> >> On 29 Mar 2008 at 12:39, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Shawn, >> >>> >> >>> I can't say it's a good idea to engineer your own child seat >> >>> restraints. Using >> >>> 600lb chain? Did you do an analysis to determine the average forward >> >>> G-forces >> >>> generated during a crash at so-many miles-per-hour and calculate the >> >>> weights of >> >>> your 2 kids buckled into thier seats, both yanking on that 1 length of >> >>> chain? I >> >>> bet not. It's your kids lives and health riding on it. What about when the >> >>> chain breaks loose and becomes a hard object to whip around and do some >> >>> really serious damage? What is the strength rating of the quick-links? A >> >>> chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, right? >> >>> IMHO, it's not a very smart move in that dept. I have 3 kids of my >> >>> own, 3 >> >>> kids and a grandkid of my wife's, so I do have a little bit of >> >>> experience >> >>> with >> >>> buckling kiddies in safely. >> >>> Also, is it ever a good practice to purchase junkyard seatbelts? >> >>> After >> >>> all, they're only designed to be good for one crash, and then they >> >>> should >> >>> be >> >>> replaced. Even earlier, if they're defective in any way (worn, >> >>> weathered, >> >>> torn, >> >>> frayed, stretched, aging, etc.). >> >>> I don't think it's a good idea to 'advertise' your home-brewed safety >> >>> measures as a 'good way of doing things' to others on the list, either. >> >>> >> >>> Mike B. >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM> >> >>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:02 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety >> >>> Standards >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > It's there on my '88 CDN model Westy, and I have installed shoulder >> >>> > belts from >> >>> > a '90 model on the right side. I plan to do the left side once I get >> >>> > around to >> >>> > pulling the cabinets. Our kids are 9 and 10, so I've been through all >> >>> > this, and the only way I was happy with the front facing seat was to make >> >>> > a rear anchor by running a piece of chain between the two seat mounting >> >>> > bolts*, then clipping the seat's rear mount belt clip into the chain link. >> >>> > This would allow me to make both seats very secure, by adjusting the rear >> >>> > strap tight enough so when the lap belt was clipped in, the seat was >> >>> > wedged very tightly into the foam. >> >>> > >> >>> > *the seat mounting "bolts" I mean are the large philips head machine >> >>> > screws visible on the >> >>> > rear deck just behind the seat at each corner. I removed them, and >> >>> > installed a standard metal >> >>> > car seat anchor hook, then a washer, then a longer bolt. I then linked the >> >>> > chain using threaded quick links at each side, and left the chain loose >> >>> > enough that it would reach about 1/2 way up the seat when attached to the >> >>> > car seat strap. The chain was chosen large enough that the car seat clips >> >>> > fit into the links, and has a breaking strength of at least 600lbs IIRC. >> >>> > I've used the same stuff to lift engines with... :-) >> >>> > >> >>> > All that said, since you will eventually want shoulder belts anyway, >> >>> > you may >> >>> > be able to devise a system using the rear should belt that works well >> >>> > also, and just do that. I got my belts and all the pieces for about $100 >> >>> > from a wrecker, and pulled them myself, so I could see exactly how they >> >>> > installed, and got the plastic trim piece for the side panels, etc. >> >>> > >> >>> > On 29 Mar 2008 at 8:21, Paul Guzyk <paullist08@GUZYK.COM> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> According to GoWesty there is a threaded anchor behind the rear side >> >>> >> panel. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> "The reel mounts into a factory threaded hole - no drilling or >> >>> >> welding is required" >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Perhaps see if the threaded hole exists on your Cdn van then use it >> >>> >> to hold your existing seat securely? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> http://gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3218&search_phrase=child%20seat >> >>> >> %20a nch or&start=60 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> item kt-122 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >I'm hoping the list can help me purchase the appropriate car seat >> >>> >> >for >> >>> >> >my >> >>> >> >toddler who has outgrown her rear facing infant seat. I drive a 86 >> >>> >> >Westy >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Shawn Wright >> >>> > http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels >> >>> > '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed >> >>> > '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Shawn Wright >> >> http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels >> >> '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed >> >> '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA >> >> >> >> >> > > > >Shawn Wright >http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels >'88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed >'85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA


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