Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:54:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shawn Wright <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Shawn Wright <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards
In-Reply-To: <032d01c891bb$6a16a540$0a00a8c0@OWNERMIKE>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Mike,
The original poster asked for suggestions on how to more securely anchor seats in a vehicle
never designed for this. I offered my solution. I also offered that the factory shoulder belts
may also provide some solutions. I am quite certain the chain and assorted fastening links
were significantly stronger than the rear tether straps provided on the car seat. This
argument could go on endlessly, as the reality is there are no 'authoritative sources' on this
issue when it comes to retro-fitting child restraints into vehicles not designed for them, so we
must do the best we can. I checked with several sources before doing this, and none of them
would consider designing a restraint for liability reasons. I do not claim my solution is the best
way to go, only something to consider, and likely better than using the lap belt alone, which is
explicitly stated as unsafe with many car seats. At the time, I was comfortable that the seat
was as secure in my Westy as it was when installed in my Jetta, which uses a restraint based
on the factory design added for the 1990 model year.
I notice you mention your experience with buckling kids in safely, yet you don't offer any
constructive advice for the original poster. I would love to hear it, as I do plan to be driving a
Westy when the grand kids arrive. :-)
As I mentioned, I pulled the junkyard belts myself, and was able to view the donor van, which
had minimal body damage, so I was comfortable with the condition of the belts. Your point is
probably valid, so for those concerned, GoWesty has the new ones.
Regards,
Shawn
On 29 Mar 2008 at 12:39, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:
> Shawn,
>
> I can't say it's a good idea to engineer your own child seat restraints. Using
> 600lb chain? Did you do an analysis to determine the average forward G-forces
> generated during a crash at so-many miles-per-hour and calculate the weights of
> your 2 kids buckled into thier seats, both yanking on that 1 length of chain? I
> bet not. It's your kids lives and health riding on it. What about when the
> chain breaks loose and becomes a hard object to whip around and do some really
> serious damage? What is the strength rating of the quick-links? A chain is
> only as strong as it's weakest link, right?
> IMHO, it's not a very smart move in that dept. I have 3 kids of my own, 3
> kids and a grandkid of my wife's, so I do have a little bit of experience with
> buckling kiddies in safely.
> Also, is it ever a good practice to purchase junkyard seatbelts? After
> all, they're only designed to be good for one crash, and then they should be
> replaced. Even earlier, if they're defective in any way (worn, weathered, torn,
> frayed, stretched, aging, etc.).
> I don't think it's a good idea to 'advertise' your home-brewed safety
> measures as a 'good way of doing things' to others on the list, either.
>
> Mike B.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards
>
>
> > It's there on my '88 CDN model Westy, and I have installed shoulder belts from
> > a '90 model on the right side. I plan to do the left side once I get around to
> > pulling the cabinets. Our kids are 9 and 10, so I've been through all this,
> > and the only way I was happy with the front facing seat was to make a rear
> > anchor by running a piece of chain between the two seat mounting bolts*, then
> > clipping the seat's rear mount belt clip into the chain link. This would allow
> > me to make both seats very secure, by adjusting the rear strap tight enough so
> > when the lap belt was clipped in, the seat was wedged very tightly into the
> > foam.
> >
> > *the seat mounting "bolts" I mean are the large philips head machine
> > screws visible on the
> > rear deck just behind the seat at each corner. I removed them, and
> > installed a standard metal
> > car seat anchor hook, then a washer, then a longer bolt. I then linked the
> > chain using threaded quick links at each side, and left the chain loose enough
> > that it would reach about 1/2 way up the seat when attached to the car seat
> > strap. The chain was chosen large enough that the car seat clips fit into the
> > links, and has a breaking strength of at least 600lbs IIRC. I've used the same
> > stuff to lift engines with... :-)
> >
> > All that said, since you will eventually want shoulder belts anyway, you may
> > be able to devise a system using the rear should belt that works well also,
> > and just do that. I got my belts and all the pieces for about $100 from a
> > wrecker, and pulled them myself, so I could see exactly how they installed,
> > and got the plastic trim piece for the side panels, etc.
> >
> > On 29 Mar 2008 at 8:21, Paul Guzyk <paullist08@GUZYK.COM> wrote:
> >
> >> According to GoWesty there is a threaded anchor behind the rear side
> >> panel.
> >>
> >> "The reel mounts into a factory threaded hole - no drilling or
> >> welding is required"
> >>
> >> Perhaps see if the threaded hole exists on your Cdn van then use it
> >> to hold your existing seat securely?
> >>
> >> http://gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3218&search_phrase=child%20seat%20a
> >> nch or&start=60
> >>
> >> item kt-122
> >>
> >> >I'm hoping the list can help me purchase the appropriate car seat for my
> >> >toddler who has outgrown her rear facing infant seat. I drive a 86 Westy
> >
> >
> > Shawn Wright
> > http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> > '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> > '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
> >
>
Shawn Wright
http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
'88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
'85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
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