Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:23:19 -0400
Reply-To: Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-DAV1FB1719A1A93E859589AADFFB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Bruce
The tether is only there to stop the forward motion of a forward-facing
child seat in a frontal crash. When the seat faces backward, it's actually
meant to be able to rock up and bounce off of the seatback if you get rear
ended. Or at least that's what I was told (by the local police dept child
safety person) after I figured out how to tether my son's rear facing seat.
I kneel in the seat to get it really sunk into the foam.
Forward facing, I run the tether down along the seat back, and hook it onto
the metal bottom edge of the seat back. This puts the strain on the seat
back and therefore the mechanism which locks the seat back upright. Not
ideal, but I'm sure it's better than not tethered. Might be okay, since the
lap belt should take most of the force. I'm sure there are better ways, but
this should certainly improve the odds, which is the point. If we want to
be perfectly safe, we wouldn't drive at all.
Ray
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Ryan Shawley <easywind1975@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> I can vouch for this, I have a forward facing seat in my Westy that
> doesn't
> move more than a half inch. The trick is pre-adjusting the lap belt and
> then putting your weight into the seat to compress the bench seat foam.
> It
> should look like your assaulting the seat to anyone passing by.
>
> Ryan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike" <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 21:03
> Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards
>
>
> > Apparently you missed this post. It should answer most of the issues you
> > said in your reply to me;
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce,
> >
> > The top tether strap is only for use in a rear-facing infant seat
> > application, to limit the seat's forward motion in a crash; it wouldn't
> > limit sideways motion at all, no matter which direction it's mounted.
> > The best way to get a tight-fitting seat belt is to place your knee
> into
> > the seat while cinching the belt as tight as possible. If you have to
> > pre-tighten the belt, then latch it in, due the belt's routing inside
> the
> > carseat, you still will need to press your weight on your knee into the
> > seat
> > to compress the vehicle's seat foam enough to get the belt to latch very
> > tightly. This trick was shown to me years ago, and it makes a huge
> > difference.
> > Keep those kids safe!
> > Mike B.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bruce Todd" <beeceetee@GMAIL.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:25 AM
> > Subject: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety Standards
> >
> >
> >> I'm hoping the list can help me purchase the appropriate car seat for
> my
> >> toddler who has outgrown her rear facing infant seat. I drive a 86
> Westy
> >> Syncro with the current seat locked by the lap belt to the back bench
> >> seat -
> >> it seems pretty secure.
> >>
> >> The convertible seats, which are for children weighing between 22 to 65
> >> lbs
> >> (depending on the make) are more difficult to anchor securely and
> appear
> >> to
> >> be designed for more modern vehicles with latching systems and tether
> >> points.
> >>
> >> Last week we took our first camping trip and I swapped the car seat
> from
> >> our
> >> other vehicle, which is a convertible style seat, and fiddled around
> with
> >> it
> >> to get it to fit. It ended up facing the rear and being relatively
> snug
> >> from front to back but not to my liking in terms of side to side
> >> movement.
> >> Part of the reason for this is it is difficult to cinch the lap belt
> >> super
> >> tight because of how the belt travels underneath the child seat. The
> >> model
> >> of this seat, which is highly recommended, is a Sunshine Kids Radian -
> it
> >> fits quite well in our Honda CRV.
> >>
> >> When checking to see whether the seat fit any better frontward facing,
> I
> >> was
> >> disappointed to see that it didn't and was not very snug at all -
> >> especially
> >> from side to side. I'm guessing this is the purpose of the top tether
> on
> >> the seat - to help stabilize the seat. Obviously I would like to find
> a
> >> seat that fits front or rear facing and works to the specifications it
> is
> >> designed for.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I open this non-mechanical topic up to wise members of the
> >> Vanagon
> >> list.
> >>
> >> Many thanks,
> >>
> >> Bruce Todd
> >> Vancouver
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels@gmail.com>
> > To: "Mike" <mbucchino@charter.net>
> > Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety
> > Standards
> >
> >
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> The original poster asked for suggestions on how to more securely
> anchor
> >> seats in a vehicle
> >> never designed for this. I offered my solution. I also offered that the
> >> factory shoulder belts
> >> may also provide some solutions. I am quite certain the chain and
> >> assorted
> >> fastening links
> >> were significantly stronger than the rear tether straps provided on the
> >> car seat. This
> >> argument could go on endlessly, as the reality is there are no
> >> 'authoritative sources' on this
> >> issue when it comes to retro-fitting child restraints into vehicles not
> >> designed for them, so we
> >> must do the best we can. I checked with several sources before doing
> >> this,
> >> and none of them
> >> would consider designing a restraint for liability reasons. I do not
> >> claim
> >> my solution is the best
> >> way to go, only something to consider, and likely better than using the
> >> lap belt alone, which is
> >> explicitly stated as unsafe with many car seats. At the time, I was
> >> comfortable that the seat
> >> was as secure in my Westy as it was when installed in my Jetta, which
> >> uses
> >> a restraint based
> >> on the factory design added for the 1990 model year.
> >>
> >> I notice you mention your experience with buckling kids in safely, yet
> >> you
> >> don't offer any
> >> constructive advice for the original poster. I would love to hear it,
> as
> >> I
> >> do plan to be driving a
> >> Westy when the grand kids arrive. :-)
> >>
> >> As I mentioned, I pulled the junkyard belts myself, and was able to
> view
> >> the donor van, which
> >> had minimal body damage, so I was comfortable with the condition of the
> >> belts. Your point is
> >> probably valid, so for those concerned, GoWesty has the new ones.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Shawn
> >>
> >> On 29 Mar 2008 at 12:39, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Shawn,
> >>>
> >>> I can't say it's a good idea to engineer your own child seat
> >>> restraints. Using
> >>> 600lb chain? Did you do an analysis to determine the average forward
> >>> G-forces
> >>> generated during a crash at so-many miles-per-hour and calculate the
> >>> weights of
> >>> your 2 kids buckled into thier seats, both yanking on that 1 length of
> >>> chain? I
> >>> bet not. It's your kids lives and health riding on it. What about
> when
> >>> the
> >>> chain breaks loose and becomes a hard object to whip around and do
> some
> >>> really
> >>> serious damage? What is the strength rating of the quick-links? A
> >>> chain
> >>> is
> >>> only as strong as it's weakest link, right?
> >>> IMHO, it's not a very smart move in that dept. I have 3 kids of my
> >>> own, 3
> >>> kids and a grandkid of my wife's, so I do have a little bit of
> >>> experience
> >>> with
> >>> buckling kiddies in safely.
> >>> Also, is it ever a good practice to purchase junkyard seatbelts?
> >>> After
> >>> all, they're only designed to be good for one crash, and then they
> >>> should
> >>> be
> >>> replaced. Even earlier, if they're defective in any way (worn,
> >>> weathered,
> >>> torn,
> >>> frayed, stretched, aging, etc.).
> >>> I don't think it's a good idea to 'advertise' your home-brewed
> safety
> >>> measures as a 'good way of doing things' to others on the list,
> either.
> >>>
> >>> Mike B.
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Shawn Wright" <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM>
> >>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:02 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Convertible car seat for Vanagon - Canadian Safety
> >>> Standards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > It's there on my '88 CDN model Westy, and I have installed shoulder
> >>> > belts from
> >>> > a '90 model on the right side. I plan to do the left side once I get
> >>> > around to
> >>> > pulling the cabinets. Our kids are 9 and 10, so I've been through
> all
> >>> > this,
> >>> > and the only way I was happy with the front facing seat was to make
> a
> >>> > rear
> >>> > anchor by running a piece of chain between the two seat mounting
> >>> > bolts*, then
> >>> > clipping the seat's rear mount belt clip into the chain link. This
> >>> > would allow
> >>> > me to make both seats very secure, by adjusting the rear strap tight
> >>> > enough so
> >>> > when the lap belt was clipped in, the seat was wedged very tightly
> >>> > into
> >>> > the
> >>> > foam.
> >>> >
> >>> > *the seat mounting "bolts" I mean are the large philips head machine
> >>> > screws visible on the
> >>> > rear deck just behind the seat at each corner. I removed them, and
> >>> > installed a standard metal
> >>> > car seat anchor hook, then a washer, then a longer bolt. I then
> linked
> >>> > the
> >>> > chain using threaded quick links at each side, and left the chain
> >>> > loose
> >>> > enough
> >>> > that it would reach about 1/2 way up the seat when attached to the
> car
> >>> > seat
> >>> > strap. The chain was chosen large enough that the car seat clips fit
> >>> > into the
> >>> > links, and has a breaking strength of at least 600lbs IIRC. I've
> used
> >>> > the same
> >>> > stuff to lift engines with... :-)
> >>> >
> >>> > All that said, since you will eventually want shoulder belts anyway,
> >>> > you may
> >>> > be able to devise a system using the rear should belt that works
> well
> >>> > also,
> >>> > and just do that. I got my belts and all the pieces for about $100
> >>> > from
> >>> > a
> >>> > wrecker, and pulled them myself, so I could see exactly how they
> >>> > installed,
> >>> > and got the plastic trim piece for the side panels, etc.
> >>> >
> >>> > On 29 Mar 2008 at 8:21, Paul Guzyk <paullist08@GUZYK.COM> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> According to GoWesty there is a threaded anchor behind the rear
> side
> >>> >> panel.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> "The reel mounts into a factory threaded hole - no drilling or
> >>> >> welding is required"
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Perhaps see if the threaded hole exists on your Cdn van then use it
> >>> >> to hold your existing seat securely?
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> http://gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3218&search_phrase=child%20seat%20a
> >>> >> nch or&start=60
> >>> >>
> >>> >> item kt-122
> >>> >>
> >>> >> >I'm hoping the list can help me purchase the appropriate car seat
> >>> >> >for
> >>> >> >my
> >>> >> >toddler who has outgrown her rear facing infant seat. I drive a
> 86
> >>> >> >Westy
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Shawn Wright
> >>> > http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> >>> > '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> >>> > '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Shawn Wright
> >> http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> >> '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> >> '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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