Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:03:56 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack? (+ crossing the creek)
In-Reply-To: <001d01c89a89$ffb5f110$6400a8c0@daadaa1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Since manual steering racks are not 'basically weak' on vanagons, like
usually they just last forever - a good used one sure seems like the
'indicated repair' to me.
I think you're underestimating what goes into a real rebuld.
I'm guessing that the strip everything down to the bare aluminum casting,
The bare linear gear, and the other components, or many of them.
Then they clean and carefully inspect each part, possibly making say 6 to 8
good rebult units out of 10 cores turned in.
And they build up each good and inspected part, plus new parts for those
parts that wear, like seals, bushings, and bearings if there are any and
build a as-good-as-new unit that way.
To be a 'real rebuild' it would have to be more than clean it and slap in
new end bushings.
scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
jbclem1
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 2:38 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack? (+ crossing the creek)
In the past I used to see rebuilt manual racks from local rebuilders. Just
now I googled it and found Bus Boys with one
for $425.00 and Go Westy with one for $315.00. Both needed the core, of
course. I asked the Bus Boys person what was
included for the price, and he guessed "seals?". I suggested bushings and
he thought that might be. I'm thinking $425
is a hell of a price for a couple of bushings, plus a good clean job on the
rack itself. Both these shops get them from
an outside source, who probably has a $10/hr worker who does the job in 1-2
hours. The bushings couldn't cost more than
a few dollars apiece. Getting them out would be the hard part, I don't know
if there is a clip holding them in place,
or what. I'm going to have to find a local rebuilder (Los Angeles area) and
see if they'll show me.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Daniel - Shazam" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack? (+ crossing the creek)
A good used serviceable unit is always the most cost effective and easiest
solution .
You've seen rebuilt MANUAL steering racks ?
Scott
turbovans
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
jbclem1
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:18 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack? (+ crossing the creek)
I took another look at the steering rack. The passenger side arm (tube) has
a flared section beginning about 3 inches
from it's end. This would be the obvious place for a bushing/bearing. The
play I mentioned is coming from inside this
flared section and a thin screwdriver will go about 2 inches into the end of
the tube/arm before encountering an
obstruction. If I slide the thin screwdriver in right next to the shaft I
can feel it slip into a space between the
obstruction and the shaft, and it won't go in very far because it fills up
this space. When that happens, the play that
I mentioned...disappears. The wear gap is taken up by the screwdriver. This
feels like a worn out bushing to me.
This may be a rare event, as mentioned, but consider that for years this bus
was driven everyday through a creek, 6
months of the year there was water in the creek, and some years the engine
would die in the middle of the creek and the
bus would sit there for a while, sand-bearing creek water swirling around
and over the steering rack and slipping into
the steering rack boot and up into the tube, presumably wearing out this
bushing.
This happened regularly, as anyone trying to cross a creek (with 1-2ft
water) in a water cooled vanagon would know...in
1 foot of water, the water readily splashes up the left side of the engine
and the engine starts missing badly and
sometimes shuts it off. I learned to hit the creek moving fast so when the
engine shut off I would be able to coast
partway up the ramp on the other side...creek was about 20 feet wide...then
if lucky I would sit at a 30 degree slant
with engine mostly out of the water idling on 2 cylinders, waiting for the
hot engine to evaporate the water and then
start running on 4 cylinders again. This usually takes about 5 minutes.
As an aside, my 1980 air cooled Westphalia would go through the same water
without even coughing, it takes a lot more
water to get up past the heater boxes to where it affects the running of the
engine. I would just keep the revs up and
go slowly through the creek (unless the bottom was real soft, in which case
it was pedal to the floor!). My hardest
crossing was with creek water splashing over the head lights (3 feet
water?)...had to catch a plane to New Zealand.
Amazing bus, this 1980.
Back to rebuilding the manual steering rack...the reason I brought this up
was that I've occasionally seen rebuilt ones
offered for sale, so some shop(s) has found or manufactured the right size
bushings. There can't be much else in there,
seals and bushings. I was hoping someone had taken one apart and could
give me some clues. As it stands, I'll
probably look for a good used one, then after the replacement I'll be able
to take the old one apart or at least try to
pull the bushing with an inside type puller...then go find an equivalent
sized bushing.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Wilford" <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack?
> I've never heard of this problem although anything is possible as these
> vans age. There are no rebuild parts available or listed in the ETKA
> for the manual rack. Not sure if a new manual rack is available from
> the dealer but my aftermarket sources are totally dry. So I guess it is
> used rack or nothing.
>
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
> Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
> > If it is the inner end of the tie rod that's shot, fine, that's a
> > replaceable part.
> > What I've found though, on one vanagon of mine, is that the outer end of
the
> > steering rack was shot.
> > There 'might' be a bushing there.......but inboard of where the tie rod
is,
> > .....the actual linear gear of the rack is supported at both outer
> > ends......and I think it's a bushing there, can't imagine it would ride
in
> > bare aluminum.
> >
> > The guy just wrote that his tie rod is fine. Sounds like a typical case
of
> > someone jumping to a conclusion about a part.
> >
> > If his problem is inboard of the inner end of the tie rod like it seems
he
> > is explaining, I have not heard of any rebuilt kit for the aluminum
housing
> > of the rack, though there could be one or parts for it in the parts
system.
> >
> > Perhaps a member handy with the ETKA can look and see if the rack body
has
> > replaceable bushings at the end.
> >
> > As far as I know the repair is a good used steering rack, which isn't
that
> > big a deal.
> > This van I have, that a big heavy person ruined by *jerking* the
steering
> > during a year and half period - when I get my van back, I notice two
solid
> > inches of play at the steering wheel rim, and vanagons seldom do that. I
> > figured it would be the U-joint under there or rubber drive disc that
was
> > shot - nope, it was the outer ends of the rack, as I've described above
-
> > about almost a quarter inch vertical play there, and most definitely
nothing
> > to do with the tie rods in any way.
> > Scott
> > turbovans
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of
> > Ken Wilford
> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 5:29 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Rebuilding manual steering rack?
> >
> > It sounds like the tie rod itself is actually the part that is shot.
> > The end that is on the rack side is a ball and socket joint that can
> > wear out. Buying a new tie rod and installing it should fix the
> > problem. We sell these for $65 and they are German and include a tie
> > rod end as well. I would also replace the boot at the same time. We
> > have them for $8. The part number for the tie rod assembly is
> > 251419803. Let me know if I can help you further,
> > Ken Wilford
> > John 3:16
> > www.vanagain.com
> >
> >
> > jbclem1 wrote:
> >
> >> I have a 1983 Westphalia with a manual (not power) steering rack.
There's
> >>
> > a lot of play on the passenger side, and the
> >
> >> play is coming from a point just inside the rack itself, where the
> >>
> > passenger side tie rod goes into the steering rack
> >
> >> body. I can grab the tie rod and move it up and down right at the
point
> >>
> > where it disappears into the steering rack
> >
> >> body. The tie rod end itself is fine, no play, and easy to replace if
it
> >>
> > does go bad.
> >
> >> It doesn't look like it woud be hard to rebuilt if I could find the
> >>
> > part(s). And some instructions also. Has anyone
> >
> >> tried this, could someone direct me to instructions? I know it's not
that
> >>
> > hard to find information and parts for the
> >
> >> power steering racks, but the manual ones seem to be in a different
> >>
> > category.
> >
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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