Good to see you find the true problem. Another quick repair would be to cut the black wire off the damaged pin, extend it with an inline fuse, crimp a male spade end onto it, and plug that male spade into pin 4 of unused relay socket #2.

The coil gets power from the key switch only, for most versions of the 2.1 engine FI harness. That power is jumpered over to control the ECU power relay. Different years do the relay wiring differently as well.

Mark

Dan Hall wrote: > Following the sage advice of our esteemed list members, I began > tracing the black wire from the ignition switch to the to the > connectors on the back of the fuse/relay panel. > > 12 volt current was fine on the A8 connector going into the fuse/panel > but on the D15 connector coming out the voltage tested a 4 volts. I > could see heat damage on that wire. > Applied a little JB blaster and warmed the connector slightly and the > white D connector came out of panel fine. Voila! The white plastic > connector was burned black around the area where the wire to the coil > connects--and there was little left of the metal connector. Don't > know if that D15 slot on the connector is repairable. > , > What I'm thinking I will do is splice into the black wire off the > ignition switch before it gets to A8 connector, install an inline fuse > and route the splice to the black coil 12 volt wire, bypassing the > damaged D15 slot on the connector. The black ignition wire seems to > power other components on current track 15 across the top of the pages > in Bentley or I would route the wire direct with no splice. > > I might even decide to use this black 12 volt wire to trigger a new > relay so the coil can enjoy direct battery voltage. > > Or does the coil not get fed with battery voltage from the alternator > off the power relay when it closes? > > Thanks for all the advice and help. > > Dan > > > > > On Apr 20, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > >> The connection points are easy enough to get to, find, and fix. That >> circuit is also used to operate the turn signals, wipers, etc. I would >> check the connectors on the back of the fuse box. You can jump where >> the >> power goes in and then comes out. The Bentley diagram will give the >> connector and pin numbers. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >> Behalf Of >> Dan Hall >> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:44 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: '86 Westy cranking trouble >> >> On Apr I bought the van from the original owner in 1993---had around >> 60,000 miles on it. >> Now almost 270,000 miles. >> >> Since I've been informed that the circuit to the coil is unfused, and >> to save tracing this wire all the way back to the ignition switch, >> trying to find the source of the resistance, could I not just use the >> original wire to trigger a new relay to the coil, the relay getting >> power off the hot post in that junction box on the firewall? >> Could even install fuse to protect the system better. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> And I will certainly run some tests to see if anything is shorting to >> ground and to find any possible restriction causing the poor voltage. >> Could a short to ground cause this voltage drop? >> Dan Hall >> >> >> , 2008, at 6:45 PM, Mark Drillock wrote: >> >>> The van was made 22 years ago. The wiring harness for the engine may >>> have been changed out somewhere along the line. There are a few >>> things I >>> could check to see which of the 5 versions of the 2.1 harness it is >>> but >>> no one really cares too much. >>> >>> The problem you describe is a high resistance in the power wiring to >>> the >>> coil. There could be a corroded connection along the way. What is >>> happening is that the wire run can supply a small amount of current >>> without the voltage dropping. When you have the other stuff connected >>> the wire can't provide all the current it wants and so the voltage >>> drops. >>> >>> This is like a plumbing problem in an old house. Someone takes a >>> shower >>> with no problem unless someone flushes a toilet or washes dishes at >>> the >>> same time. By jumpering extra power from another route you are >>> bypassing >>> the constricted pipe and letting the shower guy be. >>> >>> How long have you had this van? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> Dan Hall wrote: >>>> My van, an 86 was manufactured in November of '85. >>>> Last 6 digits of the VIN are 031 388 which would lead us to believe >>>> it >>>> should follow the Bentley for Vanagons up to VIN 055 690. >>>> However, what I actually find on my van in many cases, more closely >>>> fits vans from VIN 055 690. >>>> >>>> In this particular instance, what I find in the relay box follows >>>> the >>>> diagrams from VIN 055 690. I guess that the folks that record data >>>> for inclusion in the Bentley had one too many biers on their lunch >>>> break or some such. >>>> The power to the coil comes in on a black wire that also splits off >>>> to >>>> provide current for the crankcase ventilation heater unit--that also >>>> follows Bentley for van from VIN 055 690 >>>> >>>> This afternoon, I tested the function of the ignition switch and all >>>> seems well with it. >>>> >>>> I then checked for constant voltage on the relays that feeds in on >>>> the >>>> big red wires. Tested OK. >>>> >>>> I pulled the 4 smaller gauge wires off poles 1 and 15 on the coil: >>>> big green goes to Digifant unit. >>>> little green goes to dash and I believe provides RPM signal to tach >>>> and dynamic oil pressure system. >>>> black is switched power from ignition. >>>> black/yellow feeds power to the relays in the box over the coil. >>>> Bentley says this should be black/white but mine is black/yellow. >>>> >>>> The black power wire showed 12 plus volts. >>>> I plugged it back onto the coil. Still showed 12 plus volts. >>>> I then plugged the black/yellow back onto coil-----immediate voltage >>>> drop to zero. Unplugged it. Voltage back to 12 plus volts. >>>> >>>> Plugging in either of the green wires causes the voltage to drop to >>>> around 8 volts. >>>> >>>> I plugged all wire back up to the coil. >>>> >>>> Just now, after pondering, I made up a jumper wire to run 12 volts >>>> to >>>> the coil. >>>> As soon as I reattached the ground strap to the battery, the relays >>>> kicked in and the fuel pump cycled. >>>> >>>> The van started up with no problem. and idled normally. >>>> >>>> From that, I reckon I may deduce that my ECU, coil, distributor/Hall >>>> sender are all OK. >>>> >>>> But. I still am not electrically savvy enough to figure out why the >>>> voltage is dropping with all wires to coil hooked up. >>>> >>>> Is this condition indicative or a short to ground somewhere? >>>> >>>> Any advice on how to locate it? >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Dan Hall >>>> "Das Boot" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Then I tested the black wire for battery voltage with the ignition >>>> switch on. >>>> I >>>> On Apr 20, 2008, at 11:51 AM, neil N wrote: >>>> >>>>> Gold info man! >>>>> >>>>> I might add, that I found DeOxit to be an *awesome* contact >>>>> cleaner. >>>>> There is another product a list member kindly mentioned to me: Rid- >>>>> ox. >>>>> It may very similar, or the same. >>>>> >>>>> And thanks for clarifying Mark. One of my posts may have been >>>>> misleading. >>>>> >>>>> I quoted from the "newer" version of '86 Digifant wiring. >>>>> >>>>> It shows a "keyed" (from 15) black/white wire from coil to "Digijet >>>>> Control Unit Relay". If I'm not mistaken, power from this wire >>>>> energizes the relay electromagnetic coil of this relay. >>>>> >>>>> But...... I just noticed that they labeled this relay Digijet, but >>>>> the >>>>> control unit is Digifant !! >>>>> >>>>> Yikes! Bentley '86 wiring diagram shenanigans! --- ;^) >>>>> >>>>> Neil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Mark Drillock >>>>> <drillock@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>> As Neil pointed out, there are 2 very different wiring diagrams >>>>>> for >>>>>> 86. >>>>>> It sound like you have the early version of that wiring. What are >>>>>> the >>>>>> last 8 digits of your vin# ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The 2 engine relays are mislabeled in the wiring diagram for the >>>>>> early >>>>>> 86!!! This is clear from the fact that the one labeled "fuel pump >>>>>> relay" >>>>>> is not the one that connects to the fuel pump wiring! >>>>>> >>>>>> The relay mislabeled "fuel pump" is really the "power relay" that >>>>>> supplies everything in the early 86 model. >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't worry about relay socket 2 of the main fuse panel, it is >>>>>> empty for >>>>>> waterboxers. Also, realize that the green wires to/from the coil >>>>>> are for >>>>>> ignition pulses not power. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your use of a jumper wire to test and bypass is a great approach. >>>>>> You >>>>>> are very close to fixing this I'd guess. >>>>>> >>>>>> You are not the first on this list to have a problem in the >>>>>> wiring of >>>>>> the black twin relay box. Try unplugging the connector to the >>>>>> outside of >>>>>> the twin relay box. Look closely at both sides of the connectors, >>>>>> clean >>>>>> if needed and plug back in. It may be as simple as this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Power on from the key comes to the engine compartment on a black >>>>>> wire. >>>>>> On the early diagram there is a labeling error and this wire is >>>>>> labeled >>>>>> "sw" which is German for black. This error is on page 97.72, top >>>>>> right >>>>>> at connection pin D15. That is power on from the key which then >>>>>> turns on >>>>>> the "power relay" which is wrongly labeled "fuel pump relay". >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, most of the above is for the early 86 diagram and the >>>>>> wiring >>>>>> in >>>>>> this area changed drastically after a few months of production. >>>>>> The >>>>>> later engine harness wiring is simpler and improved. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan Hall wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have an '86 Westy Weekender, Wolfsburg edition---pop-top but no >>>>>>> kitchen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the past several weeks, I've had a mysterious, intermittent >>>>>>> starting problem. The starter works and the engine turns over >>>>>>> fine >>>>>>> but won't crank. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The fuel relays and, thusly, the fuel pump were not cycling >>>>>>> when I >>>>>>> turned the ignition switch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I discovered that if I lightly tapped on the fuel relay box above >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> coil with the key switched on, the relays would click on and the >>>>>>> fuel >>>>>>> pump would cycle and I'd start it up and off I'd go. >>>>>>> Thinking it was bad relays, I bought replacements. That solved >>>>>>> nothing. >>>>>>> I've since bench tested the relays and they work fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The big red wires that supply constant current to the fuel relays >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> 12 volts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is a black/yellow wire that runs from the fuel relay to the >>>>>>> coil. The Bentley says this wire is Black/White but mine is >>>>>>> black/ >>>>>>> yellow. With the ignition switch on, I only had 5 to 6 volts on >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> wire. Tap the relay with power on and the relays work, fuel >>>>>>> pump >>>>>>> cycles. Then, I tried to start the van as usual after and it >>>>>>> turned >>>>>>> over fine but would not start. Now, that same black/yellow wire >>>>>>> shows >>>>>>> only 1.2 volts. The relays will not work, even with tapping. >>>>>>> I plugged in a borrowed Digifant ECU but that did not help the >>>>>>> situation. I put the old ECU back in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I ran a jumper wire with 12 volts to that black/yellow wire on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> coil and the relays and fuel pump all worked nomially. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had a spare ignition switch and tried that but no joy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've studied the wiring diagrams of the Bentley til I'm cross- >>>>>>> eyed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where does the coil get its voltage supply? >>>>>>> ----My Bentley shows from a relay in the 2 position on the panel >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> to the fuses in the wiring diagrams but not in the legend of the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> pages. And I've never had a relay in the 2 postion. >>>>>>> -----I tested the resistance of the coil and it seems within >>>>>>> specifications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What voltage should I have on poles 1 and 15 on the coil with the >>>>>>> ignition turned on? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have thought about leaving the 12 volt jumper wire hooked up >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> coil and then try starting it but am holding off til I hear from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> List. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any help, advice, guesses would be appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan Hall >>>>>>> '86 Westy Wolfsburg Weekender >>>>>>> "Das Boot" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco" >>>>> >>>>> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil >>>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >