Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:19:04 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: 52 degree Inline 4 hydraulic lifters leaking down
In-Reply-To: <333c10e0804160839y61ac0518n556c70d90c978e96@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I'd be super curious as to *exactly* why additive was put in.
But if this is a mechanic you've known for a while and trust, well
then ignore that suggestion!
:^)
Personally, to pre lube an engine that had been sitting for a while, I
would use recommended oil for a given engine, remove plugs, and spin
it for a while to lube things up.
Just my "shade tree" .02
Neil.
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Jason....you are confirming everything I think. hydro valves not an
> issue.
>
>
> Mechanic put an oil pressure guage on the motor yesterday morning when it
> was cold. Apparantly the needle went off the guage. 100lb/in+ Conclusion:
> high oil pressure forcing the lifters to hold the valves open, giving no
> compression. ( Scott's initial suggestion!) Mechanics suggested cause:
> additive he'd put in the oil to ensure good lubrication when engine was
> first started up. He's drained & flushed oil, replaced. Motor running as
> of yesterday evening. I heard and saw it. Quiet and smooth. OK oil pressure.
>
> Now, putting my stick on the ice and having a good look around......
>
> 1) oil pressure relief valve could be sticking when the motor is cold.
>
> 2) too high oil pressure may compromise the oil seals- flywheel and at the
> timing belt end- anywhere else? Symptoms of this- other than oil dripping
> out of the bellhousing/timing belt cover ?
>
> 3) is there anything else I should be looking for ?
>
> Thanks all......
>
> Bill M
>
>
>
>
> On 4/15/08, Jason Ewing <uberhare@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I used an 86 1.6TD with hydro lifters in my 82 diesel van. Never any
> > problems with them. Sounds like the replacement engine has issues.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jake de Villiers <
> > crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Bill, if your 'mechanic' thinks that leaking lifters will cause low
> > > compression, he has a serious misunderstanding of engine internals and
> > > should be replaced!
> > >
> > > Where did the donor engine come from? Was it seen to be running well
> > and
> > > show good compression then?
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the comments Scott....good thorough reply.
> > > > I understand that if compression is lost because a valve is open,
> > > >
> > > > - it's excess oil pressure that's opening the valve, not the angle
> > of
> > > > the lifter.
> > > > - Check the oil pressure and the pressure relief valve
> > > >
> > > > Correct?
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/14/08, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > He only time hydraulic lifters with an oil or hydraulic problem
> > could
> > > > ever
> > > > > keep an engine from starting is if they get held 'too open' by
> > > excessive
> > > > > oil
> > > > > pressure. I've seen it and read about it in various makes of cars.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm pretty sure that if they don't get any oil pressure, the valves
> > > will
> > > > > still be held open enough to make the engine start and run, but with
> > > > very
> > > > > noisy valves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Waterboxer and all inline 4 VW hyd. Lifters are not related in any
> > > way.
> > > > > Nothing to do with each other except the principle under which they
> > > > > operate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hyd. Lifters do not start in VW diesel engines until 86, maybe a
> > year
> > > > > earlier in Audi - or something close to this.
> > > > > 82 diesel vanagon most definitely never had hyd. Lifters.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wondered/was concerned about diesel hyd. lifters at 50 degrees
> > when
> > > I
> > > > > did
> > > > > my first TD engine conversion, but it's not a problem, and
> > I've have
> > > > run
> > > > > many many thousands of miles with vw diesel inline 4 hyd. Lifters at
> > > 50
> > > > > degrees.
> > > > >
> > > > > For your situation here, it's not hard to check the compression,
> > > > > Or observe the valves being opened and closed with the vale cover
> > off.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if you do think something is going on with the oil and/or air
> > > > getting
> > > > > into the hyd. Lifters from the oil pump ........you check the oil
> > > > > pressure,
> > > > > ( to make sure it's not excessive, like from stuck pressure relief
> > > valve
> > > > )
> > > > > and for air in the oil from the oil pump ( which I've never heard of
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > VW
> > > > > ) .....if that's going on, then you think about the oil pump itself,
> > > but
> > > > > it's extremely unlikely in a VW diesel as far as I know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott
> > > > > www.turbovans.com
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > Bill MacLachlan
> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:51 AM
> > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > > Subject: 52 degree Inline 4 hydraulic lifters leaking down
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all...
> > > > > I have an 82 diesel converted to inline 4 with CIS injection about
> > > ten
> > > > > years ago- just before I bought the vehicle.
> > > > > I've just had a local VW shop install a replacement 1800cc inline
> > > motor
> > > > > in
> > > > > my van.... I believe they are a good well experienced shop.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are having an issue with the replacement motor. If the motor is
> > > > left
> > > > > for a few hours, apparantly there is no compression, it won't start
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > mechanic is thinking this is the hydraulic lifters leaking.
> > > > > My old motor had hydraulic lifters ( well, at least that's what the
> > > > > sticker
> > > > > on the valve cover said and I have no reason to believe otherwise)
> > and
> > > I
> > > > > never had an issue with it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are some questions:
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone else out there had experience with hydraulic lifters in
> > I4
> > > > > setups- when tilted at 52 degrees?
> > > > > Are the lifters in a waterboxer the same as the ones used in an
> > > inline4
> > > > ?
> > > > > Did the 82 vanagon deisel motor use hydraulic lifters? If so were
> > they
> > > > the
> > > > > same as the ones used in more upright deisel motors?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything I should suggest to the mechanic that would help
> > > him
> > > > > get
> > > > > this thing fixed?
> > > > >
> > > > > btw current oil filter is a Mann - the black one - and I think they
> > > have
> > > > > 10-40 oil in the motor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks all
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill M
> > > > > 82 I4 GL
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date:
> > > > > 4/12/2008
> > > > > 11:32 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jake
> > > 1984 Vanagon GL
> > > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> > > Crescent Beach, BC
> > > www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> > > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
> > >
> >
>
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
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