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Date:         Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:19:04 -0700
Reply-To:     neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 52 degree Inline 4 hydraulic lifters leaking down
Comments: To: Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <333c10e0804160839y61ac0518n556c70d90c978e96@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'd be super curious as to *exactly* why additive was put in.

But if this is a mechanic you've known for a while and trust, well then ignore that suggestion!

:^)

Personally, to pre lube an engine that had been sitting for a while, I would use recommended oil for a given engine, remove plugs, and spin it for a while to lube things up.

Just my "shade tree" .02

Neil.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Jason....you are confirming everything I think. hydro valves not an > issue. > > > Mechanic put an oil pressure guage on the motor yesterday morning when it > was cold. Apparantly the needle went off the guage. 100lb/in+ Conclusion: > high oil pressure forcing the lifters to hold the valves open, giving no > compression. ( Scott's initial suggestion!) Mechanics suggested cause: > additive he'd put in the oil to ensure good lubrication when engine was > first started up. He's drained & flushed oil, replaced. Motor running as > of yesterday evening. I heard and saw it. Quiet and smooth. OK oil pressure. > > Now, putting my stick on the ice and having a good look around...... > > 1) oil pressure relief valve could be sticking when the motor is cold. > > 2) too high oil pressure may compromise the oil seals- flywheel and at the > timing belt end- anywhere else? Symptoms of this- other than oil dripping > out of the bellhousing/timing belt cover ? > > 3) is there anything else I should be looking for ? > > Thanks all...... > > Bill M > > > > > On 4/15/08, Jason Ewing <uberhare@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I used an 86 1.6TD with hydro lifters in my 82 diesel van. Never any > > problems with them. Sounds like the replacement engine has issues. > > > > Jay > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jake de Villiers < > > crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Bill, if your 'mechanic' thinks that leaking lifters will cause low > > > compression, he has a serious misunderstanding of engine internals and > > > should be replaced! > > > > > > Where did the donor engine come from? Was it seen to be running well > > and > > > show good compression then? > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments Scott....good thorough reply. > > > > I understand that if compression is lost because a valve is open, > > > > > > > > - it's excess oil pressure that's opening the valve, not the angle > > of > > > > the lifter. > > > > - Check the oil pressure and the pressure relief valve > > > > > > > > Correct? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/14/08, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > He only time hydraulic lifters with an oil or hydraulic problem > > could > > > > ever > > > > > keep an engine from starting is if they get held 'too open' by > > > excessive > > > > > oil > > > > > pressure. I've seen it and read about it in various makes of cars. > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure that if they don't get any oil pressure, the valves > > > will > > > > > still be held open enough to make the engine start and run, but with > > > > very > > > > > noisy valves. > > > > > > > > > > Waterboxer and all inline 4 VW hyd. Lifters are not related in any > > > way. > > > > > Nothing to do with each other except the principle under which they > > > > > operate. > > > > > > > > > > Hyd. Lifters do not start in VW diesel engines until 86, maybe a > > year > > > > > earlier in Audi - or something close to this. > > > > > 82 diesel vanagon most definitely never had hyd. Lifters. > > > > > > > > > > I wondered/was concerned about diesel hyd. lifters at 50 degrees > > when > > > I > > > > > did > > > > > my first TD engine conversion, but it's not a problem, and > > I've have > > > > run > > > > > many many thousands of miles with vw diesel inline 4 hyd. Lifters at > > > 50 > > > > > degrees. > > > > > > > > > > For your situation here, it's not hard to check the compression, > > > > > Or observe the valves being opened and closed with the vale cover > > off. > > > > > > > > > > And if you do think something is going on with the oil and/or air > > > > getting > > > > > into the hyd. Lifters from the oil pump ........you check the oil > > > > > pressure, > > > > > ( to make sure it's not excessive, like from stuck pressure relief > > > valve > > > > ) > > > > > and for air in the oil from the oil pump ( which I've never heard of > > > on > > > > a > > > > > VW > > > > > ) .....if that's going on, then you think about the oil pump itself, > > > but > > > > > it's extremely unlikely in a VW diesel as far as I know. > > > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > > www.turbovans.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > > Behalf > > > > Of > > > > > Bill MacLachlan > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:51 AM > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > > Subject: 52 degree Inline 4 hydraulic lifters leaking down > > > > > > > > > > Hi all... > > > > > I have an 82 diesel converted to inline 4 with CIS injection about > > > ten > > > > > years ago- just before I bought the vehicle. > > > > > I've just had a local VW shop install a replacement 1800cc inline > > > motor > > > > > in > > > > > my van.... I believe they are a good well experienced shop. > > > > > > > > > > They are having an issue with the replacement motor. If the motor is > > > > left > > > > > for a few hours, apparantly there is no compression, it won't start > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > mechanic is thinking this is the hydraulic lifters leaking. > > > > > My old motor had hydraulic lifters ( well, at least that's what the > > > > > sticker > > > > > on the valve cover said and I have no reason to believe otherwise) > > and > > > I > > > > > never had an issue with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some questions: > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone else out there had experience with hydraulic lifters in > > I4 > > > > > setups- when tilted at 52 degrees? > > > > > Are the lifters in a waterboxer the same as the ones used in an > > > inline4 > > > > ? > > > > > Did the 82 vanagon deisel motor use hydraulic lifters? If so were > > they > > > > the > > > > > same as the ones used in more upright deisel motors? > > > > > > > > > > Is there anything I should suggest to the mechanic that would help > > > him > > > > > get > > > > > this thing fixed? > > > > > > > > > > btw current oil filter is a Mann - the black one - and I think they > > > have > > > > > 10-40 oil in the motor. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all > > > > > > > > > > Bill M > > > > > 82 I4 GL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date: > > > > > 4/12/2008 > > > > > 11:32 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Jake > > > 1984 Vanagon GL > > > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie" > > > Crescent Beach, BC > > > www.crescentbeachguitar.com > > > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27 > > > > > >

-- Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"

http://web.mac.com/tubaneil http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/


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