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Date:         Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:14:25 -0500
Reply-To:     Dan Hall <elektro@WESTAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dan Hall <elektro@WESTAL.NET>
Subject:      86 hot temp gauge---was  '86 Westy cranking trouble
In-Reply-To:  <c4e7c5f90804200951v3cd132b5xcaaf21f793427c63@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

After sorting out the bad 12v wire to the coil, my 86 Westy still starts and runs fine. Spent this PM continuing to scour the engine compartment and clean up/ renew electrical connections.

I'd recently installed a new thermostat. The old one was running on the cold side(if the gauge indicator was accurate) on the highway, especially when outside air temp was cold, and also would heat up very rapidly while waiting on my burrito in the drive thru. I theorized that it was a thermo that just wasn't performing very well.

After installing the new thermo, and bleeding the air outta the system, I noticed the van ran about a needle with above dead center on the LED on the coolant gauge. I drove it about a week, peridodically open the bleeder on top of the radiator and on top the thermo housing and kept an eye on the expansion tank, topping it up once after it had cooled overnight. I bled radiator and thermo housing today but I did not find any air in the system.

Today, I decided to get after the connections to the sensor for the coolant temp gauge as the crimps(had to put in new wire years ago after a meltdown against the exhaust pipe) were old and had been exposed to moisture and dust and such.

After renewing the connections, I finished the job with heat-shrink tubing. With the connector pulled from the sensor, the gauge shows zero temp. With the contacts bridged with a piece of wire, the gauge goes to top of the gauge-hot. I plugged the sensor back up and drove the van down the highway and back. The temp gauge warmed quickly and was reading extremely warm, instead of on/near the LED. Not warm enough to cause the radiator fan to kick on but close.

I wonder if now that the gauge is getting good current from the sensor(a variable resistor) this could indicate that the new thermostat is bad. Or perhaps I've a clogged radiator and the condition has been masked by a bad sensor connection all this time.

Or, when I pulled the fuse/relay panel to get at the bad (burned) wire to the coil on connector D15, I've somehow introduced a slight bit of current to the thermo gauge on the dash so it is reading abnormally high. I see in the Bentley on page 97.92 that the coolant temp sending unit wire arrives on the same D connector at the fuse/relay panel as did the wire to that carried 12volt power to the coil (that 12v wire to the coil now routed off the vacant relay position 2.

Hmm, but the radiator fan 1st stage is still kicking on about where it should so maybe the gauge is correct.

I'll try a different thermostat tomorrow and see what happens.

Thoughts? Advice?

thanks, Dan Hall 86 Westy Weekender "Das Boot"

On Apr 20, 2008, at 11:51 AM, neil N wrote:

> Gold info man! > > I might add, that I found DeOxit to be an *awesome* contact cleaner. > There is another product a list member kindly mentioned to me: Rid-ox. > It may very similar, or the same. > > And thanks for clarifying Mark. One of my posts may have been > misleading. > > I quoted from the "newer" version of '86 Digifant wiring. > > It shows a "keyed" (from 15) black/white wire from coil to "Digijet > Control Unit Relay". If I'm not mistaken, power from this wire > energizes the relay electromagnetic coil of this relay. > > But...... I just noticed that they labeled this relay Digijet, but the > control unit is Digifant !! > > Yikes! Bentley '86 wiring diagram shenanigans! --- ;^) > > Neil. > > > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Mark Drillock > <drillock@earthlink.net> wrote: >> As Neil pointed out, there are 2 very different wiring diagrams for >> 86. >> It sound like you have the early version of that wiring. What are the >> last 8 digits of your vin# ? >> >> The 2 engine relays are mislabeled in the wiring diagram for the >> early >> 86!!! This is clear from the fact that the one labeled "fuel pump >> relay" >> is not the one that connects to the fuel pump wiring! >> >> The relay mislabeled "fuel pump" is really the "power relay" that >> supplies everything in the early 86 model. >> >> Don't worry about relay socket 2 of the main fuse panel, it is >> empty for >> waterboxers. Also, realize that the green wires to/from the coil >> are for >> ignition pulses not power. >> >> Your use of a jumper wire to test and bypass is a great approach. You >> are very close to fixing this I'd guess. >> >> You are not the first on this list to have a problem in the wiring of >> the black twin relay box. Try unplugging the connector to the >> outside of >> the twin relay box. Look closely at both sides of the connectors, >> clean >> if needed and plug back in. It may be as simple as this. >> >> Power on from the key comes to the engine compartment on a black >> wire. >> On the early diagram there is a labeling error and this wire is >> labeled >> "sw" which is German for black. This error is on page 97.72, top >> right >> at connection pin D15. That is power on from the key which then >> turns on >> the "power relay" which is wrongly labeled "fuel pump relay". >> >> Again, most of the above is for the early 86 diagram and the wiring >> in >> this area changed drastically after a few months of production. The >> later engine harness wiring is simpler and improved. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dan Hall wrote: >> >>> I have an '86 Westy Weekender, Wolfsburg edition---pop-top but no >>> kitchen. >>> >>> In the past several weeks, I've had a mysterious, intermittent >>> starting problem. The starter works and the engine turns over fine >>> but won't crank. >>> >>> The fuel relays and, thusly, the fuel pump were not cycling when I >>> turned the ignition switch. >>> >>> I discovered that if I lightly tapped on the fuel relay box above >>> the >>> coil with the key switched on, the relays would click on and the >>> fuel >>> pump would cycle and I'd start it up and off I'd go. >>> Thinking it was bad relays, I bought replacements. That solved >>> nothing. >>> I've since bench tested the relays and they work fine. >>> >>> The big red wires that supply constant current to the fuel relays >>> have >>> 12 volts. >>> >>> There is a black/yellow wire that runs from the fuel relay to the >>> coil. The Bentley says this wire is Black/White but mine is black/ >>> yellow. With the ignition switch on, I only had 5 to 6 volts on >>> this >>> wire. Tap the relay with power on and the relays work, fuel pump >>> cycles. Then, I tried to start the van as usual after and it >>> turned >>> over fine but would not start. Now, that same black/yellow wire >>> shows >>> only 1.2 volts. The relays will not work, even with tapping. >>> I plugged in a borrowed Digifant ECU but that did not help the >>> situation. I put the old ECU back in. >>> >>> I ran a jumper wire with 12 volts to that black/yellow wire on the >>> coil and the relays and fuel pump all worked nomially. >>> >>> I had a spare ignition switch and tried that but no joy. >>> >>> I've studied the wiring diagrams of the Bentley til I'm cross-eyed. >>> >>> Where does the coil get its voltage supply? >>> ----My Bentley shows from a relay in the 2 position on the panel >>> next >>> to the fuses in the wiring diagrams but not in the legend of the >>> same >>> pages. And I've never had a relay in the 2 postion. >>> -----I tested the resistance of the coil and it seems within >>> specifications. >>> >>> What voltage should I have on poles 1 and 15 on the coil with the >>> ignition turned on? >>> >>> I have thought about leaving the 12 volt jumper wire hooked up the >>> coil and then try starting it but am holding off til I hear from the >>> List. >>> >>> Any help, advice, guesses would be appreciated. >>> >>> Dan Hall >>> '86 Westy Wolfsburg Weekender >>> "Das Boot" >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco" > > http://web.mac.com/tubaneil > http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/ >


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