Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 00:41:27 -0400
Reply-To: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagons as electric vehicles and other stuff....
In-Reply-To: <027f01c8ae64$9f20f900$6600a8c0@4BYCY41>
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Uh Oh.....
The cat's out of the bag again i see.
Well, let me put down my pair-o-pennies on conservation, solar, and battery
vehicles.
First off, Kim is right, the best solution to zero emissions these days is a
bicycle. They work....well.
I see the problem of conservation to be something that everyone SHOULD
actively be pursuing for the simple fact that it saves them money. Anyone
can eperiement in conservation without shedding a dime on "Compact
Florescent Light Bulbs" and "Low flow shower Heads". These things are great,
and should be used, but the first step in conservation, is to TURN IT OFF.
That's right. If your in a room with three lights, and your sitting next to
one of them reading.....i bet you can do fairly well without the other two
being on. Just by flipping those switches, you saved money. Take a shorter
shower, or use less hot water (heating costs energy!). And never forget that
water is NOT a renewable resource, and is something that should be more
concerning to more people....
Once you've taken that first step, and unplugged the unneccessary things,
shut off some lights, and used a bit less water on your own, then you will
see the improvements made by adding Compact Florescent bulbs and low flow
showers. It's something we all SHOULD be doing, because we would all like to
live the same, and spend less money!
Assuming everyone did the above mentioned experiment, even just a bit....the
results would be astounding. The results from that could alone, almost
justify the emissions being put out by driving a car. But wait.... There's
more!
As Kim said, a savings of 20% could be had to the electrical mains just by
conservation. That 20% would not even be fully filled if everyone started
driving electric cars, because they tend to be very efficient, or not work.
Efficiency is the key to an electric vehicle. If you have a car that
sacrifices energy at something like a 70% loss, and you throw in weight and
poor aerodynamics....well that's whats going to kill the electric car!
Light, sleek, modern electric vehicles have ALOT of potential. The secret
again lies in efficiency. The electric motor has in many ways, been figured
out. It has been standardized throughout much of the industries, and while
there are some great improvements to still be harvested (Brushless vs.
Brushed motors for instance), as a whole that game's been decided upon.
Since electric vehicles all too often do not use gears and remain in only
one, the efficiency of the transmission falls out of the picture. I imagine
though that if an electric motor were to have a specifically desired RPM
operating range, a transmission would increase it's efficiency
exponentially. So what can be improved? Well, there are essentially two
other items of importance to an electric vehicle, asside from the physical
body and drivetrain. The batteries, and controllers.
The controll mechanisms for an electric motor have come a LONG way! They
started out as non-linear switches that essentially controlled the flow of
current through resistors and direct paths. look at an old RC car for
instance, they had a mechanical swing arm that would engage "forward" or
"reverse", making a mechanical connection to a series of switches. Some, had
two forward switches, one with half the current (so a "slow" speed), and one
with full. Now days its all electronic. "Electronic Speed Controls" are MUCH
more efficient. They now have so many computers in these things, that they
even calculate the most efficient means of acceleration and cruising speed
in order to once again, BE EFFICIENT. These advances all lead to more
mileage per charge. But the biggest thing, is the batteries.
Lead acid Deep cycle batteries are great, but it's old old technology. The
sad reality is, no one knows that there is MUCH better stuff out there!
Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer battery technologies for instance are at the
cutting edge of high volt, high density power packs, PERFECT for the
automobile industry. While they do have a few problems (they like to
explode, they can't really take a deep discharge), solutions are already in
the works. Even modern electric cars that sometimes run on NiMh technology
(Nickle Metal Hydrite) are more efficient than the cars of yester year.
Again, cost is the problem here, but efficiency is the goal.
With these things in mind, a vanagon is a terrible base vehicle for an
electric car. If you said to an engineer "you can pick any vehicle you want
to make electric. We're going for maximum range at minimum cost", i promise
they wouldn't pick a vanagon! A cheap Porsche 914 with its light weight and
slippery aerodynamics would be a much more logical choice.
The best solution is once again, at least for me, a bicycle.
Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania has just become the first school in
Pennsylvania to have it's students propose (and now are succeeding in
passing) an $80K/year "Green Fund" to make the campus more eco-friendly. I
find myself at the fore running of this path, as i've been very involved
with a program we like to call "the green bikes". We take donated, crappy
bikes, and fix them up. Then, they get a coat of green paint, and are
released into circulation, to ride at your own risk. So if you leave a
building and find a bike, you take it.....ride it to where your headed, and
leave it there. No one locks them up, and so far, no one's been abusing it.
It's real popular in Europe.....
It's FREE transportation to the masses, with Zero emissions, and recycling
bicycles in the process! Anyone want a bicycle? I'll give you one. Free pick
up in PA.
So whats this all mean? You can make a difference. And if you do, and
everyone does, the electric car will become a contender. I never even
touched on the efficiencies of Green Building and Solar panels these
days....
But i do expect much of the ways we live, will be changing and evolving over
the coming years as a response to this problem, and our vanagons will become
cars we drive on saturdays, as gas will be $12/gallon and no one will mind
(because we'll all have electric cars!)
My soap box is now being passed on to the next ranter....
-Craig
'85Gl
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM, Kim Springer <kimspringer@rcn.com> wrote:
> OK, here I go, adding my 2 cents and I hope it's worth more than that
> since
> I'm neck deep in all these issues, every day, for a living.
>
> The Vanagon is a poor choice for an electric conversion! Too fat and too
> heavy. You do not need a 1 ton vehicle to hold the weight of batteries.
> Ever
> pushed a Vanagon? Ever pushed a bicycle? You push the vanagon and I'll
> push
> the bike, and race you across the parking lot. Weight is the enemy of
> electric vehicles. Remember that. Wind resistance is the other enemy, so
> the
> Vanagon is far from desireable, especially since most people are driving
> with 1 person on board, daily. Now if you are going to haul 9 people
> everywhere the electric vanagon goes, we can discuss this again.
>
> Oil companies and the electric vehicles and solar: I too do not believe in
> conspiracy theories, but I do believe that money drives the market. Oil
> companies did indeed buy up solar research 20 years ago, I believe they
> slowed the process down considerably becasue there was (and still is) more
> money to be made by selling oil and only now are oil barrons, all over the
> world, investing in alternative technologies. Every heard of BP Solar? By
> the way, they are not investing because profits on oil have dropped, they
> are investing to get their foot in the door on the next wave (like the dot
> com boom) and for positive PR.
>
> As for installing solar at a home site: start by doing all the enegy
> efficiency work on your house first; it's a lot cheaper and more
> beneficial
> than installing solar. And don't forget Water Conservation. All the heated
> water we use costs a lot as well. If you are still paying a high enough
> rate
> during peak periods of the day to warrant installing solar, then go for
> it,
> but solar is still very expensive. Even in California with the rebates we
> get, you have be a pretty big user before the up front cost makes sense.
> The
> average 1200-1400 sq ft home doesn't pencil out. By the way, you might
> want
> to do it before the end of the year as the federal rebates are due to
> sunset
> at the end of this year. I'm hoping the program will be renewed.
>
> There are also a lot of theories that electric vehicles do not solve GHG
> issues, as the energy has to be generated somewhere, right? Somewhere,
> upstream, there is a power station thats coughing out GHG emissions. In
> California, the generation mix, (hydroelectric, natural gas, solar,
> geothermal, etc.), generates only 25% of the GHG emissions that the
> average
> vehicle emits per mile. If you go electric vehicle in California, you've
> made a real difference. The next myth: the grid can not handle the switch
> to
> electric vehicles! If every house in the US was 20% more efficient on
> energy
> use, you could use that money to power all the vehicles in the US as
> electrics. Remember, electric vehicles are cheap to run.
>
> Battery Technologies: The technology is there. Tesla is using the
> technology, Phoenix Automotive is using the technology, etc., but the cost
> is very high, I believe higher than it should be. Again, I think the
> companies that can make these batteries are holding the cost artificially
> high to earn profits. Soon there will be more competition and the cost
> will
> come down, hopefully sooner than later, for our children's sake.
>
> I recently went to an "eco transportation fair". my favorite vehicle was a
> two seater, 2 wheels in front, one in the rear, all electric, 100 mile
> range
> and capable of 70 MPH. The current favorite in my vehicle closet is my
> bicycle (zero emissions). I just filled up my Tristar today. The last time
> I
> filled it up was more than a month ago. Efficiency and conservation first!
>
> Kim Springer
> 2WD Tristar
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BJ Feddish" <bfeddish@NETREACH.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Vanagons as electric vehicles and other stuff....
>
>
> > >> There was a movie made called, "Who killed the electric car?" that
> was
> > VERY revealing. It is available on Netflix and probably on Blockbuster.
> <<
> >
> > That car was ridiculously expensive and only had a 40 mile range. Sure,
> > there were some takers but probably some rich Californians. Don't bash
> GM
> > as they are currently making the Volt which seats 4, has a 200 mile
> range
> > and can charge quickly. They are still up in the air as to how to
> charge
> > for the expensive batteries, should they charge a monthly payment or
> have
> a
> > large initial charge. It should be out it 2010. Nobody killed the
> Electric
> > Car.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy theories for squashing alternative
> > technologies. As soon as the first person opens a gas station with $1.25
> > algae/switch grass/etc. derived fuel or someone creates a capacitor type
> > battery for eclectic cars people with beat a path to their doorstep.
> There
> > is so much money to be made if somebody can come up with a technology to
> > beat the price of gas. Exxon is not out there squashing each one of
> these
> > people. As soon as there is a breakthrough we'll hear about it.
> >
> > Bryan
> >
>
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