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Date:         Mon, 19 May 2008 22:27:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Foss - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Foss - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Can engine and transmission be swapped?
Comments: To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <ac1f198b0805192124s1b3e47cfs92a4f93b93fb7cb3@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

And besides all that, if this wasn't mentioned already.........many people mistakenly think you can just grab any engine / transaxle package, and turn it around and bolt the whole thing in the back of the vanagon.

for 'most' such ideas ...........engine and whatever transaxle it came with stock .........you end up with a van with one forward gear and 4 reverse ones. or if auto trans - no way.

you can't turn a Subaru engine/transaxle package around and stick it in the back of a vanagon for example. . if you want to try to make it mid-engine.........( engine about where the back seat was ) then yes you can take FWD Buick or whatever engine/trasnaxle packge and just 'slide it over' and stick in a vanagon, but you can't turn it around.

very few rear engine & transaxle packages fit and turn the right way - porsche is one. and there are a few odd ones here and there. but you need to think about that factor, there are not many rear engine, clockwise turning 'engine in the back' transaxle ahead of that engine/transaxle packages/

there is such a thing as changing the direction an engine turns - not done much - mostly marine where you have twin V-8 inboard engines and you want them to counter rotate- then one will have cam built for reverse rotation. and maybe a distrubutor. this isn't practical or available for many automotive engines. - though those chrylser marine adapted engiens in that boat thing i just mentioned - they started as car engines.

and most honda engines turn 'backwards too. since day one, 1975 civic, Honda engiens have turned couterclowise when viewed at the crank nose - that's backwards compared to all most all other engiens so you cant' put on of those into a vanagon .............say 90 Accored engein ..........but i have heard that the more modern ones...........i dont' know 98 and up , 2000 and up..........those turn clockwise like normal engines, like a vanagon engines. Now a ncie 180- hp ( or whatever they are ) 2.0 liter Honda V-tec engine would make one hellava Vanagon engiine ! ..............IF they turn clockwise. and i have heard the more mdoern ones do. maybe since they started making them in the US - that would fit.

I gather honda's are 'just some other car' in the East coast. on the west coast, particularly californina a ............they are the most fantastic cars. a Benchmark for reliability , longevity, and performance. And street racing Civics - they take those out to 400 hp easily.

all fun ! but buick- no senior ! as jim says........ weight, mass, , polor moment of inertia , etc ....................ALL THAT MATTERS unless you want some ugly hack thing. They really need to be done in a wholistic approach as Jim A. does.

They've stuffed many a GM V-6 into porsche , ( I mean VW ) - 914's ...............whatever ! Scott www.turbovans.com

Jim Akiba wrote: > The problem with the setup is it's so heavy... fitment problems aside, > why would you want to add 500+ lbs to the rear of the van? It would > destroy part of what makes a vanagon so great to begin with, light > weight. Americans tend to forget that, as to most m'ericans it isn't a > "feature" as much as a "point of wimpiness" for a vehicle to be > lightweight and they also translate it directly to safety at times > viewing the relationship as a direct proportion, which it certainly is > not. The guy that weighs 400 lbs is going to have larger leg muscles > if he does the same amount of walking as the guy that weighs 200.. but > it's not worth it since big muscles shouldn't be the only goal, and > certainly not at all costs. Same with engine conversions. More people > than not get hung up on one or two aspects and forget everything else > in the equation, that's fine depending on their own goals and > priorities, but is usually not prudent under more general > consideration. As an aside, most of the W bodies with that powertrain > will weigh about the same as lot's of 2wd westys we've weighed > here(3800-4000 lbs)... the heaviest we've weighed being a fully loaded > syncro westy that was just shy of 6k lbs. My 9 passenger bare bones > van only weighed 3400 lbs. > > We have started looking to put the focus powertrain in the older > buses, and it might even work in the vanagon but we'd have to > completely modify the rear suspension, and add an access hatch under > the rear bench... the upside is that the old engine bay could become a > huge trunk... which would be cool. It might be a good possibility for > lot's of 2wd folks, and would be fully CA legal. Imagine a 4 speed > auto, or a 5 or 6 speed manual... the parts to pull it off might be > quite inexpensive too, needing far less engineered parts to pull of, > so on top of a donor car, you might only have to drop $1000 on the > custom parts, meaning you could do it for under $2k realistically. But > it's a bit of a ways off, as we're saturated in delivering the new > revision of the conversion and website. Can be done. We'll be working > on the buses first though. > > Jim Akiba > > > > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, pdooley <psdooley@verizon.net> wrote: > >> Trying to make the Buick transaxle run backwards would be difficult at best. >> >> Much better would be to mount the transverse motor/trans combo the same way >> as in the Buick, but driving the rear axle in the Vanagon. >> This would put the engine slightly ahead of the rear axle centerline, which >> would improve weight distribution. >> You may need to clearance some sheet metal:) >> >> Don't even bother with the Buick sub frame, fabricate a cradle to attach to >> the van frame rails and motor/trans mounts and make custom drive shafts with >> VW outer splines and Buick inners. >> >> The Westy might weigh more than a Buick but the Buick transmission is built >> to stand up to a lot more torque from the 3800 motor as compared to the VW >> transmission. >> I would certainly feel better about longevity with the Buick tranny backing >> the Buick motor compared to the 091. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of >> Greg Potts >> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:48 AM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Can engine and transmission be swapped? >> >> Hi Gerry, >> >> That would be an interesting idea... I think the secret of that Buick's >> gas milage was in the transmission, not the powerplant. >> >> But... The buick doesn't way anything close to an unloaded westy. I >> doubt that the transmission would hold up for long, even if you did find >> a way to make it fit. >> >> Also, in the buick the engine is in front of the transmission. If you >> spin it around to install it in a vanagon you are going to end up with >> one fairly slow forward speed and three choices for reverse. So I guess >> you will have to plan to have the transmission modified to spin the >> other way. >> >> BTW, the corvair engine/tranny swap for aircooled buses puts adapter >> rings on the transmission that the original bus CV's bolt up to. No >> special axle fabrication is required. >> >> >> Gerry Lepage wrote: >> >>> There was talk on the list of converting to a buick 3.8. Kep makes the >>> >> adapter. Someone had mentioned the possibility of swapping out both engine >> and transmission and getting custom axles built with buick at one end?and VW >> at the other. Has anyone actually done this? How about any other conversion >> using both the engine and transmission? I know that VW makes a good >> transaxle but geared too low to keep a bigger engine at proper RPMs. I also >> know that a taller 3rd & 4th could be installed to fix problem but a lot >> could be said in keeping both engine and transmission mated. I've searched >> quite a while on the Internet and haven't found anyone who's done it. Can >> anyone point me in the right direction if this is possible. >> >> -- >> Happy Trails, >> >> Greg Potts >> 1973/74/79 Westfakia "Bob the Tomato" >> 1987 Wolfsburg Weekender Hardtop >> www.busesofthecorn.com >> www.pottsfamily.ca >> >> > > >


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