Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:38:54 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Foss - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Foss - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Gasoline
In-Reply-To: <447015.86644.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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Of course, in all old gas tanks there is danger in running way, way low
as you can suck up junk in the bottom of the tank and mess up the fuel
injection.
There is less chance of that in a vanaogn gas tank, however, I believe,
since there is a sump and screen in there that instead, just clogs up
eventually.
Doesn't "Los Banos' mean 'the toilet' in spancish ??
( that was mean !! lol ! )
Owner's Manual for an 85 Vanagon says 16 gallons ( 60 liters )
well.........a 1.9TD .........'it depends' - stock it's only 75 hp.
I drove one for 7 years straight or so.
then sold the engine out of it for 3,000 cash one day. I was sorta
depressed in Port Tonwsend Wa, and that's not much more than I paid for
that extra good German made industrial ADE code engine and that was
after driving it 70K miles...
then what happened..........the next 1.9NA I got together didn't work out.
then i stumbled into a 88 740 turbo gasoline volvo sedan, which steering
and drove like a Fighter Plane compared to the Vanagon........
and i've been a gasoline person ever since- and now with the cost of
fuel for diesel being so high, unless you are getting 10 mpg higher with
diesel than with gas, you are not really gaining fuel cost per mile wise
with diesel these days,
at least not in a conventional pre-chamber mechacial
diesel...............assuming you want to keep any kind of performce of
course.
50 mph 1.6NA in a Diesel Vanagon with pretty fresh 1.6 48 hp engine
-can deliver high 20's if not 30 mpg, but you won't be covering much ground.
and in terms of safety,
there are MANY places , especially in California, that even at 65 mph
you're practically a hazard. Driving in the right lane multiple lane
highways at say 55 to 60 trying to 'just mind your own business' has two
big downsides - one, is one and off ramps.........
the right lane is just not a good place to be a lot of the time,
espeically about cars coming on the freeway, and ...........the other
one...........bozo's will come up and lock onto your rear bumber at 20
feet,. and the only way to shake them is to move one lane left, then
they 'wake up' see there's no one in front of them, and go on by you on
your right. It's insane i tell ya !
'all back roads'- that's a good mantra !
I love going to Yosemite from Fairfield all across the delta area on two
lane roads until you get to I-5 and 99, which you just cross. Hooks up
with 120 which is the north entrance to Yosemete of cousre, and also
how you'd access Toulolome Meadows, Tanya Lake, and Tioga Pass - all
pristine country when it's not too crowded or hot.
that 600 mi range was WITH 10 gallons in additon to the stock 15 or so
gallon tank in an 82 D. Vanagon.
Eletronic Controls ( and maybe m-tdi's ) are a significantly better deal
power and fuel economy wise , if done right, i believe,........... than
a pre-chamber traditional pure mechanical NA or TD VW diesel.
also............i have identified exactly FOUR advantages to diesel, and
about 10 disadvantageous, to a VW diesel engine, particularly in a Vanagon.
so i'm not missing having diesel now, not at all.
I just bought, and 'un-hack jobbed' an 82 Diesel Westy with a decent
trans in it ( i.e. proper gearing ) ,gorgeous paint light mist green
metalic paint job, and no dents ..... and a 98 Subaur Impreza engine
in it, 137 hp.
This engine is a zippier engine than the common Legacy EJ22 - a pure
delight to drive !
It ran so good, you had to watch that it didn't creep up from 70 to 75.
it just didn't care if it was going 60 or 75.
And on a 5 hour freeway delivery run, it got 19.5 mpg, at 65ish to 70.
Can't complain about that ! Especially considering the performance and
many advantages ofa 90's era Subaru engine.
My 5 speed 1.9TD vanagon felt 'just right' at 64 mph.
that was in the 90's in Ca. Went all the way to Alaska in that van too.
But really, there are a solid 10 or so disadvantages of a vw diesesl
engine in a vanagon. i'll list them perhaps.
and 4 clear advantages, that's all, Thought about it a long time, and
can't come up with more than 4 advantages.
and even a dozen disadantages.
I own 3 VW diesel engines, btw. And it's not like i havn't 'done there,
bent that' a lot with VW diesels eitehr.
it's all POLITICS about the price of fuel in Ca. or Taxes.
the law of economy of scale does not apply about fuel cost in Ca.
.............. - if it did,, given that Ca is the most populous state,
and has 2.6 cars for each of the 30 million residents ( and ever
increasing percentage of which English is not their first language- not
to dis non-Gringo's but Ca is projected to have Hispanics in the
majorty by 2015, something like that )........
but given that the Ca fuel market for cars must be the largest in the
country.................you hope that if they can sell more of gas they
could keep the price down...........but it doesn't work that way.
from Oregon to Ca the price difference for a gallon of regular can be 40
cents, even more sometimes.
CA is the the most beautiful place of course, and has the best climate
of just anywhere in much of the state. I've lived there over 35 years
easily.
more than that even.
let's hope the price eases back down !
scott
www.turbovans.com
David Kao wrote:
> The gas price at Los Banos was about the same around San Jose. San Jose
> has cheaper gas around the Bay Area. So it wasn't too bad for me to buy
> gas at Los Banos. But I really do not like Los Banos, or the stretch of
> HWY 152 there. It is always windy that makes driving a Westy no fun.
> I had to slow down to 50 MPH when driving against head wind sometimes
> between Los Banos and HWY99.
>
> Isn't the capacity of Vanagon gas tank 15 gallons? I think I had only 2
> maybe 3 liters of gas remaining when I finally saw a gas station. I never
> went down that low before. I really thought I blew it.
>
> Yes, the needle swings a little always. I sometimes allowed it to swing
> into the red zone and not to worry. But it passed the red zone and did
> not swing back... That was a pretty close call.
>
> A 1.9TDI Westy is like a dream. Not because of gas economy but the driving
> distance like 600 miles per tank is what I like in particular. I could
> go to Yosemite and back without refueling. Besides that it gives better
> torque for the hills. It's really the engine of choice for all Westies.
>
> I am not aware that California gas is now 10 % ethanol. Is this true?
> Is that why gas in California so expensive?
>
> David
>
> --- Scott Foss - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Awesome that you made to Yosemite !
>> and Los Banos is sure not a place one would want to be buying gas i
>> suspect- price wise.
>> I dislike carrying any fuel in a gas can of board of
>> course...........but what comfort knowing you had a gallon say stashed.
>> and .......if traffic will allow it..............you drop down the about
>> 35 to 42 mph, drive in very high gear at about 12 % throttle, and you
>> cuuld squease out 28 mpg on a gasoline vanagon.
>>
>> at 14.1 you were down there all right.
>> Pumping a 2WD Vanagon tank bone dry on purpose, like to remove it from
>> the van, i've gotten way over 2 gallons out of them after the gague was
>> on 'zero-nothing.'
>> Does yours do this - I've had this a few times, in two vanagons I can
>> think of.............when the gague needle gets to the top of the
>> red.........
>> it swings a bit.............one minute it'll show top of the
>> red.........a few minutes later it'll be a good couple of needle width's
>> above top of the red.
>>
>> 21.5 is decent mileage.
>> talk about what fuel prices 'were'..........
>> in the mid 90's..........diesel was $ 1.48 per gal.
>> I had a 5 speed 1.9TD GL Vanagon, with a 10 gal aux tank.
>> Several times i went 600 miles on the odometer with that total fuel
>> load, and refueled..............like after 615 miles - for $ 28.00 !!!
>> Not too shabby,
>>
>> Sorry to go on - am inviting everyone, including diesel people, to
>> calculate miles per dollar. That's what *really* matters after all.
>>
>> Say my turbo volvo sedan, Inga.................say she gets 20 mpg on
>> 4.00 dollar per gallon gas- that's 5 miles per dollar.
>> Just running #'s in my head..............I can show that a TD vanagon
>> getting 26 mpg on $ 5.00 per gallon fuel..............is only doing 5.2
>> miles per dollar - barely better - though you can sleep and cook in the
>> TD vanagon !
>> ( but a gasoline vanagon or Westy at 20 mpg at $ 4.00 gallon is doing
>> the same miles/dollar as that 740 turbo volvo sedan, but then the
>> Vanagon can't go just 80 anywhere, and not blow around in the wind
>> either ! )
>>
>> My all time record btw..........in the 70's.................I put 100
>> dollars into an envelope, and drove a 56 VW Bus ( probably mid to high
>> 20's mpg ) all around Nevada and down to North Rim of the Grand Canyon
>> etc, until that 100 bucks was gone .
>> This hardly sounds believable, but i have it in my head that i went
>> 3,300 miles on that hundred bucks..........or maybe ti was 2,300 - that
>> sounds better- it was 1973, the first gas crisis, and fuel was
>> ..................under a dollar for sure........
>> but i got t 23 miles per dollar at least - my all time record, and
>> probably never to be exceeded by something you can sleep and cook in, or
>> carry a ton of junk in.
>>
>> glad you made it to a gas station !
>> what relief ! oh please, please just be open, I almost don't care what
>> it costs, I just need that precious go juice !
>>
>> Do you happen to know btw, if your California gas is 10 % ethanol like
>> all our Oregon gas is now ?
>> thnx,
>> scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>> David Kao wrote:
>>
>>> 3 weeks ago I nearly ran out of gas on my way back out of Yosemite
>>> on HWY 152 at Los Banos. The gauge was bottomed out. When the needle
>>> passed bottom edge of the red zone on the gauge I was still 12 miles
>>> from the next gas station. I thought I blew it and would have to pull
>>> over waiting for who knows what aid would come to rescue me.
>>>
>>> Fortunately I made it to a gas station. The bill was $56. I pumped
>>> 14.1 gallon of gas into the gas tank. The gas mileage of the trip
>>> was 21.5 MPG. That included going up to and coming back down
>>> from Yosemite with nearly a full tank of gas. A full tank of gas
>>> in 1984 was around $10 only.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> --- J Stewart <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> <I'm just
>>>> 'shocked' that I can put over $40 in a VW bus... I'd have been more
>>>> shocked if I'd have had to pay for that other 6 gal too.>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Get used to it-in a few weeks that $42.00 will seem like a bargain! After Natural Bus next
>>>> weekend I probably won't be venturing further than 50 miles from home in the Westy for the
>>>>
>> rest
>>
>>>> of the summer. Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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