Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:44:45 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Neil's from scratch motor swap...and pre-Friday ramble
In-Reply-To: <ac1f198b0806130536s24deb1c0r1398f9e7b22807fe@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
All good points gentlemen. And for sure Don. If you have access to a
fabricator you trust, that works at an affordable rate, then you're
good to go. Especially if you can cobble together the DV parts for a
good price. But, for me, in terms of having the DV carriers copied, or
a 15* carrier made.....
I recall getting a loose quote of $75 to fix the enlarged hole in my
clutch pedal (clevis hole). I was so put off by that inflated quote,
that I figured F*** it. I'll do it myself. I bought some "brazing"
fuel from Crappy Tire, held the torch on the piece for about an hour
and a half --- ;^) and brazed a piece of steel rod in the hole for
next to nothing. It still works fine. (now that I have a MIG, I would
have put some copper below the hole and filled it) Yes. True. Only one
welder's quote. But, I can't imagine how much it would have cost to
have the 15* carrier I made, or a set of DV carriers made. Assuming I
had found a fabricator I trusted. If I hadn't, that would've sucked. I
can live with my own failures much better than dealing with someone
else's incompetence. So for me, knowing I have an over-built carrier
in place, works better. Having to drag the Westy, or the part back to
the fabricator due to some failed welds? Not my cup of tea. If my
welds fail? I pop it off, grind it, cut it, whatever, and do it again.
If I could find someone locally to copy the DV carriers, I'd be
curious if they could properly bend the tube (mandrel bent) and see if
they could copy the DV carrier bends accurately. From there, (for me
anyway) one could weld the rest of it. Of course given my current lack
of MIG skills, I would use steel, but I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard
to weld the plates on it.
Truly complete DV kits? Some I have seen, run around $1000 asking
price. (mind you I just found this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=613467 ......
though there is no starter that I can see) Anyhow.... And IMHO, I
still maintain that IF one is willing to fabricate, or learn a bit
about it, comparing the cost of about $600 for KEP kit and steel to
play with, to the possible cost of a *complete* DV kit of closer to
$1000, it was a no brainer for me. (especially since I recently
rebuilt my clutch housing) I put some of that money to a MIG welder.
Something I'll get to use for years. For the average person? Maybe not
the best route. Now making the exhaust was another big challenge. In
some ways harder than making the carrier. (no pics online of what I
needed). But that's another story --- ;^)
For me, "my price" was knowledge. For most people? I'd suggest going
the 50* route. Spend the money on the DV parts, swap the head (if
needed), have a stock DV exhaust made and be done with it.
BTW, shopping for the stuff and sourcing the right materials (Don has
given me links to some useful sites.... thanks Don!) was one of the
more time consuming parts for me.
If I were to do it again? 50* or 15* ? I'll let you know after the
first 1000 km's.... --- ;^)
Cheers,
Neil.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:36 AM, Jim Akiba <syncrolist@bostig.com> wrote:
> I agree with Jake from the average owners standpoint, not to mention
> that lot's of "race fabricators" make garbage and suck at their own
> jobs. Lot's don't but if you don't know enough, you could easily screw
> yourself badly. It'll all depend on the person, and I can easily say
> that way better than 90% of vanagon owners wouldn't find it worthwhile
> or low risk enough to do on their own(meaning even having it made as a
> one-off for them). But on the other hand Don is right, it *can* be
> shopped out cheaply if you know how to make sure everything is done
> right, and you know what you're asking for.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Jake de Villiers
> <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You've made the engine carrier - now you need the special oil pan and
>> pickup, the bell housing and the starter, among other things. $600 is a
>> bargain Don.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Don Hanson <dhanson@gorge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite a bit of work, eh? But you are getting there now. I still wonder
>>> why you chose that route but then it's all good anyhow.
>>> I was looking more closely at the conversion in my Van...the Diesel motor
>>> hangers...specifically. People always tell me..Oh yah, those kits, if you
>>> can find em are about $600 bucks, if you don't already have a diesel van
>>> and
>>> have to buy the whole kit...(for putting an inline four gasser in exactly
>>> like the original diesel vans were installed.) But looking at the motor
>>> carrier bars in mine...these are dead simple. You could have some made at
>>> a
>>> race chassis shop for about $100 bucks...Just two bends in some steel
>>> tubing
>>> with plates welded to the ends. A good chassis builder or someone who
>>> builds roll cages could make a pair in an hour, max.... The motor mounts,
>>> from the carrier bars to the block, those are cast and you might be better
>>> looking for junkers or perhaps those are still available as aftermarket
>>> parts. You could probably also make those..but not so easy as the engine
>>> carrier bars... The Kennedy Engineering adapter plate...again not too
>>> expensive..
>>> The best part of doing a conversion like this is that it has been widely
>>> done before and you could likely find one to copy pretty easily or borrow a
>>> diesel van and copy that..No 'reverse engineering' needed.
>>>
>>> Recently, the rear end of my SO's 70's beamer 2002 rusted pretty much
>>> off...The shock mount and spring perch was a stamped extension of the
>>> trunk...and it rotted away leaving a rear wheel kinda floppy...She really
>>> loves that car so I took it to my local race fabricating shop and we
>>> figured
>>> out a new rear suspension...a couple of tubes, some plates, etc. Ol' Russ
>>> welded and bent...and now she is happy again for just $175! Works better
>>> than new, too, except stuff in the trunk gets all wet and dirty if the road
>>> is wet...
>>> The point being, with a bit of creativity, you can do almost anything to
>>> these simple old German cars, and they are certainly worthwhile to keep on
>>> the road. Almost any "normal" American, what with our "disposable
>>> mind-set"
>>> would have just paid to have the cute little Beamer box smooshed...But not
>>> Marie..."I just put a rebuilt engine in that car" she said (almost 4 years
>>> ago) "And it's got a new tire!"..."can't you fix it? You built a racecar
>>> that goes 200mph, you should be able to fix a simple bit of
>>> rust...."....Yes, dear...Sure, honey...
>>> Don Hanson
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jake
>> 1984 Vanagon GL
>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>> Crescent Beach, BC
>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>>
>
--
Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
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