Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:44:19 -0400
Reply-To: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: craig cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pondering new commuter car (FRIDAY ONLY TOPIC)
In-Reply-To: <4B167979A7334E70BB3D58C5FE1AC109@StusLaptopPC>
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We just picked up a Volvo 850 (1997 GLT) with only 20 thousand miles on it.
A real gem!
It manages to pull 33-35mpg on the highway, and is FASSSSTTTTTT.
However of the list you listed, my money is on the "old" R32. They're not
that old. Last year, the dealership I was working for managed to sell a few
low mileage ones (under 20K miles) for $20K or less. The new ones, are not
the same....
But the "Old" ones, are just SPECTACULAR. I always say its the fastest
feeling car i've ever jumped into (And i've driven more than my fair share
of exotic super cars). They just feel, ideal. I don't know on the gas
mileage, but thats the car i'd be buying, especially if you needed AWD. I
think it's the best valued sleeper car on the market.
I recently had a chance to drive some long trips in a few different subaru
models. I must say, i hated them. The engines are great, but the interior
was just rubbish in my mind. I couldn't manage to get comfortable at all,
and everything felt like i was going to break it.
I do dig some of the volvos on the market, and the BMW 3's are NICE, but the
bucks could be the problem there. Same with the Benz.
My reccomendation:
Stop shopping for a new car.
Ya i'm sure i have the least experience of everyone on the list in this
department (quite literally), but "WHY?" Why buy new? "Because i'm the one
breaking it in" or something of that nature....
Well i'm sorry to tell you, new cars rarely have 0 miles on them. They've
been on test drives, driven around the lot day in and day out by uneducated
highschool kids with muddy shoes, and the value just doesn't make sense! I
have seen first hand that it just makes too much sense to buy a car a few
years old, maybe 3 or 4 years old, with say 30K miles or less. Odds are, it
will cost you LITERALLY half of what it would be new. And it's still "A new
model" vehicle, with low miles.....
I also like to see it from an environmental standpoint. I could go out
tommorow and use my College loans that i loath to someday pay back, and
purchase a 2008 Toyota Prius. I'm not going to go into a long rant about how
they really "DON'T" Get the 100mpg that people dream of or whatever and are
really only "Slightly" better than a conventional vehicle, but i wont. I'll
state instead the problem with their sales (From an environmental
standpoint). Everyone says "hey, i can save the world if i just trade in
this old Clunker F150 with it's 200K miels, and buy a Prius!". Well lets
pretend for a second that your F150 gets 15mpg combined driving, and the
Prius gets 50 mpg (again, pretend). Keeping the old ford as upposed to
buying the new car means that thats one less car that needs to be
manufactured (Energy costs, Material costs, pollution costs, etc etc etc in
production), and one less car that needs to be shreaded and sent to the fill
(Waste). So in so many ways, your really killing the environment by buying
that hybrid. I was always told that the most ecologically friendly thing you
can do is recycle, as in making an existing product work in a new light and
for longer. This applies to automobiles as well.
And ya, you'll save so much money with the fuel improvements of the Prius
over the F150, but how many years and miles do you have to drive it to
justify the $30K you could save, and just put right into the fuel tank? Give
me $30K in gas, and i won't care what my fuel mileage is.......
If you need an upgrade, buy "lightly used". Let someone else loose their
money on the New car, and save the planet in the process (though keeping the
corado would help more.....).
Just my thoughts. It's friday. Please, let's not hear the terrible Pmails
about how i'm worse than Hitler, my views are wrong, and that young people
just shouldn't talk.....
I'm sick of that.
Whatever it is you do, you'll do because it's what you wanted to do, not
because of what any one person says. Make your own decision, and try not to
believe the salesmen.....
comparing apples to oranges can be hard sometimes, but the fruit salad
created in the end, sure is delicious.
-Craig
'85GL
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Stuart MacMillan <macgroup@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Kim,
>
> 4 wheel or all wheel drive and good mileage are mutually exclusive.
> Friction is what all cars are working against, and that includes mechanical
> and air friction. The more mechanical stuff you put power through, the
> lower the gas mileage.
>
> If you really need a 4x4 or AWD, then get it, but expect much lower
> mileage.
> A front wheel drive car, or a rear engine van, is almost as good in most
> road driving situations in snow.
>
> Check out the Scion xB. I have the first generation, and the current model
> has a bigger engine (with poorer mileage), and it may be the best overall
> car I've ever owned in terms of interior space, performance, reliability,
> and mileage (28-33mpg on regular gas). But, you have to like to quirky
> look!
>
> Stuart
> '97 EVC
> 2006 Scion xB
> 1965 MGB
> And many others, including an '84 Vanagon Westy and a '68 Westy. Both of
> which did great in the snow.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Kim Brennan
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:00 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Pondering new commuter car (FRIDAY ONLY TOPIC)
>
> So, I was cruising back from work in my Corrado (automatic) and
> realized that I probably really should start thinking about a
> different commuter car. My Corrado has been nicked several times (and
> repaired) and some of it's wiring chewed on by animals (and repaired).
> But...15 years and a few things are beginning to add up (vents spew
> out the remains of the foam rubber, cruise control doesn't work, and
> with 80K miles on it, I probably should be getting a timing belt.)
>
> So I decided to browse the new car market a bit. What I want is a
> sporty looking little car, preferably with 4 wheel drive, manual that
> gets decent gas mileage (my Corrado get about 22mpg, though I've
> gotten as much as 30 mpg on flat terrain (MD Eastern Shore). So
> something between 24-30+ mpg would be what I'm shooting for. Manual by
> preference, but auto tolerable. All for $30K. (Dream on....)
>
> Jag X-Type would have been nice, but they discontinued it.
>
> The VW Eos is intriguing, but the looks (inside and out) aren't quite
> right, plus I'm not sure you can get 4wd with it.
> The VW R32, I can't get over the revised looks (which I hate). I took
> me a while to like the Golf 4, but this new style is just plain ugly
> in my opinion.
>
> Volvo C70 is similar (hardtop convertible)
>
> Audi A4/S4/RS4. Pricey. and the fuel economy is pretty bad. The TT's
> styling leaves me wanting more.
>
> Lotus Elise/Exige. Snifty, but no 4wd (and even more pricey).
>
> Subaru WRX STI. Hmm, revised looks I like. 4 door with a fairly roomy
> rear seat. Subaru has improved their interiors a lot since I last
> looked. But the fuel economy isn't up to snuff (23 hwy on the
> 2.5turbo). Might have to consider one of the lesser WRX models, though
> I like the styling on the STI better.
>
> Mitsu Lancer Evolution. Even poorer fuel economy
>
> Looks like the Mazdaspeed isn't offered with 4wd in the U.S. of A.
>
> BMW 328xi BMW had lovely styling in the 90s. They must have hired a
> lot of ex-Japanese auto-stylers in recent years. Not pretty. They also
> get you on all the lovely add-on packages, otherwise the base models
> are fairly affordable ($35K). Unfortunately there is no 135 model with
> all wheel drive.
>
> Mercedes C300 4matic. Again, base model (black paint/black non-leather
> interior) is only $35K. Everything else starts upping the price tag,
> sigh.
>
> Porsche Carrera 4? Way too expensive.
>
> Mini? Isn't my idea of sporty
>
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