Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:59:47 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Syncro bad handling problem
In-Reply-To: <vanagon%2008062410031466@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
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Hi Ben,
you're on the right track all right - something is VERY loose about the
back end.
first.............I have seen many cases on sycnro's where you JUST CAN
NOT TELL something is shot or worn out until you TAKE IT APART.
The are Exceptionally *Nebulous* that way.
( I jsut thought of broken or shot front transmission mounts
...........not a lot of chance that's it or a factor , it just popped
into my mind )
but I can't say that enough- i've spent hours looking for the source of
viration in a syncro, and NOTHING was revealed until I took things
apart- THEN 3 totally broken things were very apparent.
You paid very carefully attention to tire pressures ? - I'd try 15 psi
more in the rear at least.
you could swap tires front to back and see what that does.
And.........having lots of vanagons around - just try a set of tires
from another van on this one.
it would be interting ............do you have truck scales around there
? .............I'd weight each axle .........if the ratio is like 60
rear, 40 front .............
that would be a MAJOR factor.
As I'm sure you know, in terms of chassis dynamics and handling
.............extreme rear ward weight bias is a very bad thing.
Rear springs rates have to be really high to compenstate for such an
imblance.
I see two possibly 'broad areas' to look at - One,
like you say, if it changed suddenly from 'pretty OK' to drastic
oversteer, that means most likely something broke or changed conditioin
rapidly.
so I'd put most effort there first.
the other one is it's just a General Condition due to the excessive rear
weight, perhaps the wrong spring rates, and so forth.
installing a rear anti-sway bar is possility ............but that's
only worth a few percent improvement likely anyway.
I think I would get the customer to agree to pay for some serious rear
dissasembly and inspection. And be sure you're not overlooking
something really obvious like tread separaation, tire pressure, looose
rear wheels, wasted rear wheel bearings............so some such major
weirdness. Does not seem like it would be related to the front
end........but with a syncro - YOU JUST NEVER KNOW !
there are VERY SIGNIFICANTLY harder to diagnose for weird problems in
the whole drivetrain/chassis than 'normal cars' and 2WD vanagons.
Sorta like working on Audi's -
the rule is ...............an up front special fee of 300 dollars just
to even think about it, and pay time and materials at double my normal
rate, and no promises of any kind - same for American cars too - lol !
good luck, Scott
Benny boy wrote:
> Hey all, i'm stuggling to find an handling problem on a customer van. So i
> wonder if any of you ever had that problem.
> Van oversteer dangerously wile turning at speed over 40mph, loose rear end,
> rear want to go in front when turning It's almost scary sometime.
> The van is HEAVY, i can barely lift this one on my electric lift in the shop.
> It's also very sensitive to wind.
>
> Condition: Big Syncro, custom interior (heavy), of course, big tire :-)
> Rear tire rack, ladder in the back, 2.5 Subi, new shock and spring on all
> wheel, no loose or play anywhere (of i can see), front stab bar is fine.
> The spring are not from GoWesty but from another reseller, i just don't
> remember the name.
>
> I thought about a rear trailling arm bushing problem but i see no play at
> all. This problem just happen lately, i mean i didn't like the handling of
> this van last year when i did some stuff on it but now it's worse than ever.
>
> Here is the van (tire where replace):
> http://www.benplace.com/jp_syncro.htm
>
> van look very similar and as now the same tire as the Syncro that i restored
> lately:
> http://www.benplace.com/87_syncro2.htm
>
> I know, it's not much and it's dificult to give advices when you don't feel
> and see the problem but maybe some of you had a similar handling problem???
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers, Ben
>
>
>
