Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:15:23 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine out--won't come apart. Need heads!
In-Reply-To: <4d1b79350806241256t72f02a2ewafa9c0af6da907eb@mail.gmail.com>
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h ijim,
I guess you wouldn't have the rod bearings apart since your pistons are
still on.'
but one they are off, you can undo the rods from above, no need to split
the cases.
all VW opposed engines have been this way since 1946 I
believe.......however............................
..................Worn cam bearings sure would contribute to low oil
pressure. That makes splitting the cases very worth it.
There are no cam bearings in vw diesel engines, unless someone
retro-fitted a set to save a head.
The cam runs in the aluminum head on VW diesel engines, with aluminum
cam bearing caps.
at that many miles, 226K .........not going in deep would just be a
short term , like a few years, repair.
all very good - be interested in hearing about your main bearings and
journals.
and an oil analysis might have flagged those cam bearings by a reading
of excessive copper in the oil.
good goin' jim,
scott
Jim Felder wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Scott Daniel - Shazam
> <scottdaniel@turbovans.com <mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com>> wrote:
>
> The could have at least made piston pihn access holes on both ends
> of the block !
> you have to do the second piston through the first pistons 'area'.
>
> there's a small tool that's an 'examdable grabber' made for
> extracting oil pressure relief pistons on air cooled VW engine
> blocks..........
> it's exactly the right size to grab the inside of the wrist pin.
>
> heating the piston helps sometimes too.
>
>
> I could have made a tool for removal, but since I don't intend to do
> this a whole bunch, I'll let a shop do it.
>
>
>
> But I'm curious what you or others are going to do with your
> separated cases and crankshaft.
> Are main bearing sets readily availble in standard or oversize ?
> I've heard they were hard to get.
>
>
> My shop didn't indicate that, but I don't know how many 2.1s they do,
> either. I haven't seen the rod bearings, of course (I don't have the
> block back yet) but I suspect no end play, and no beat-out bearing
> webs that would call for boring.
>
> I have seen a couple of the main bearings, and they look fine. Cam
> bearings, however, were showing copper. It was copper uniformly, not
> the way that you see the 1.6 diesel show copper part of the way around
> when the bearings wear out, but solid copper.
>
> Yes, I know about plastigage, but I also have the tools to measure the
> journals and the inside of the bearings. I will probably do both.
>
> The main reason that I'm taking the whole thing down is that the
> engine had 226K miles on it, it would be dumb to go this far and not
> do the bearings--like I said, it will be worth it to get new metal
> around the cam, and I haven't seen the rod bearings yet... they may
> not look so good.
>
> In any event, I wasn't in the car when the engine went (my wife was
> driving it) so I can only assume the worst! I do know that it got very
> hot-- it melted the thermostat housing and the plastic plug over the
> TDC hole. I don't want to re-use anything in the engine except the big
> stuff, and only if it measures OK.
>
> I will be getting a new oil and water pump and new hoses, at least the
> hard-to-get-to ones, which you want to do anytime an engine comes out.
>
> The cylinders still have crosshatch and the pistons look good, at
> least by appearance. New rings should do the job there.
>
>
>
> I don't know if waterboxers have a thrust issue in the case like
> air-cooled vw engines do .......and does anybody line bore cases
> anymore anyway ?
> Perhaps you'll just leave the main bearings alone- in which case,
> unless there is an oil leak at the case split or something
> .......there's no reason to take the cases apart that I can think
> of - except new main bearings would be better I suppose.
>
> FYI - main bearings on vw engines .......at least traditionally
> have '3 oversize' things to consider - there's smaller on the
> inside if the crank is turned, there's larger on the outside if
> the case is line bored, and ..........don't know if wbxr's have
> this m but they might..........there is also how wide the main
> bearing by the flywheel is...........cases used to get a 'thrust
> cut' so that the new main bearing at the flywheel end would fit
> tightly in the case again..
>
>
> It doesn't look like I will need to turn anything, though again it's
> too early to say till I mike the journals.
>
>
>
>
> but have fun !
> I will be interested , Very interseted to hear what you find on
> the main bearings and what you do there when putting it back
> together.
> My guess is you'll just re-use the exisiting main bearings or put
> in a new standard set.
>
> you know about plasti-guage yes ?
> it's the rod bearings and rod bearing oil clearance that's the
> weak thing on 2.1's I hear.
> I'd want the crank turned or polished at least there, connecting
> rods checked and rebuilt- new rod bearing bolts, and new rod
> bearings, and check the oil cleaarace with plastiguage. Lot of
> work ! but worth it to do it right.
> ( I think I'd convert it to overhead cam and subaru 4 valve heads
> while I had the engine this far apart - lol )
> have fun.
> nice to see you go for it on serious engine work.
>
>
> Well, I've done about ten british car motors (they are junk to begin
> with, compared to VWs), one honda civic, an Opel, a 1977 911, about
> five aircooled VWs and a couple of diesels now (running very nicely
> after 30K, thank you). They all have their idiosyncracies (this
> waterboxer about takes the cake, though, for general weirdness) and
> there's something to learn from each, but they all have something in
> common: cleanliness and craftsmanship. Oh, and there's the hypocratic
> oath we are supposed to take before tearing into them: first do no harm.
>
> Thanks for the encouragement.
>
> Jim
>
>
> scott
> turbovans
>
>
> Jim Felder wrote:
>> I got the sleeves out after a long session with a slide puller. Grabbed them
>> by the ears and out they came. I notice in the Bentley that VW makes a
>> special tool that grabs them by the groove for the green rubber o-ring. I
>> don't think that would have worked on these.
>> Getting the engine case apart was vexing because I didn't have a way to get
>> the pins out of the pistons. My local shop said "if you take the circlips
>> out, we'll take the pins out." That's where it is now.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Benny boy <huotb@videotron.ca> <mailto:huotb@videotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hey hey hey... i have been there so many time. Respect my friend... work
>>> hard and learn the infamous way's of the wasser leaker.
>>>
>>> Pry that sleeve out of there, even VW made it easy for us,, just look
>>> carefully.
>>>
>>> I'm so bad....
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:25:29 -0500, Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> <mailto:jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I got the engine out and used the expert advice received from previous
>>>> threads to break it down without much trouble until it came to remove the
>>>> cylinders. Only number one would budge. I'm pretty well equipped with
>>>>
>>> tools,
>>>
>>>> but whatever it takes to pry cylinders out of a waterboxer, I don't got.
>>>> So, I tried to separate the case anyway. I've got it about four inches
>>>>
>>> apart
>>>
>>>> at the seam, but don't have a way to apply non-destructive force beyond
>>>> that. So I gave up and will take it to a VW shop tomorrow to get the
>>>> cylinders out.
>>>>
>>>> Everything I've seen inside looks pretty good, to my amazement, except the
>>>> heads, which were used anyway. So much for used head.
>>>>
>>>> I just missed getting a set of very lightly used AMC heads by one day.
>>>> Anybody else out there with a pair? I'm not looking for anything that
>>>>
>>> needs
>>>
>>>> to be welded or rebuilt, but for something in very good condition.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>
>
>
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