Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:15:14 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Hybrid Vanagon
In-Reply-To: <ac1f198b0806300806s30d9d4f2qfc90cbe9349ea064@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
of course they have now come out with gas-electric hybrid cars that have
very powerful engines - that Lexus Big Boat comes to mind - the LS600h I
think it is.
my point is ...........................a properly matched or dedicated
drivetrain could produce results in a Vanagon. Might go from say low
twenties to mid to high 20's for mpg.
Companies turning out these higher power hybrids ( the hybrid Accord
is faster than both the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder non-hybrid versions )
.........
they only claim that they are getting the performace of the bigger
engine ( V-8 in the Lexus I belive ) with the fuel economy of the next
size down engine - i.e. - the performacne of a V8 with the fuel ecnomy
of a V^.
So looked at that way.............and if it could be *affordably
done* a vanagon type vehicle with the right well-matched or dedicated
hybrid drivetrain, could deliver somewhat better fuel economy.
however.................of course...............for what it would
cost you to retrofit a properly matched hybrid drivetrain ( the Lexus
is a 100 thosuand dollar car after all - those parts won't be cheap in a
junkyard !~!~ ) ............you could never get your money back in fuel
savings...........when gasoline is no longer avaiable, you'd still be
hoping to reach your break even point on the fuel savings versus the
conversion cost.
It would only make sense to do it for the pure technical enjoyment and
reward of it.
And ideas of putting a small civic or prius drivetrain into a Vanaong -
not even sligtly practical. You'd have to have TWO Prius power units in
a vanagon even for it to be even partly practical.
Try this - get a crashed Prius or Honda Civic Hybrid and make just the
forward portion - base of the windshield forward - make that into a
Pusher Trailer..........and in the right driving conditions you shut
down your conventional gasoline or diesel Vanagon engine ........and run
off just the push from the Hycrid Pusher trailer. Not much modification
needed to do this either, engine can stay right where it is in the donor
car's body etc. ..... - ........
well, the battery has to go somewhere..............gotta remember that
of course !
I have not heard yet of one case of any hydrid car owner needing to
have to replace the car's main 'charge storage' battery , or of a dealer
even replacing one under warranty. Evidently it's not a problem. I
read about one company that will lease you the battery so it's covered
if it fails........
but they must not be a problem much in real life.
and everyone knows that McCain is proposing a 300 million dollar prise
that the goverment pays............to anyone who can invent a really
good battery - long range, good performance, quick re-charge times, low
cost and low weight, etc.
scott
www.turbovans.com
Jim Akiba wrote:
> But why actually do you disagree with my statements? Because you have
> a hybrid civic? I'm not really certain I follow your line of argument.
> Lot's of vehicles achieve much higher mpg than a vanagon, this doesn't
> mean their powerplants would do the same *in* a vanagon. Ever towed
> anything with a prius for instance? You're not supposed to for good
> reason, it's so close it's output limits in stock form that even
> pulling a light motorcycle overworks it into sending the mpg into the
> low 20's. Try towing with the civic, it might be a telling exercise
> as to what the increase in frontal area and drag of the vanagon might
> do to overall economy, and why it's not worth it for hwy driving.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Ikard <fikard@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I disagree completely with the assessment you gave about the benefits of a
>> hybrid for long haul driving. I own a Honda Civic Hybrid and get 45 mpg on
>> the freeway at 72 mph. I get about 36 in the city.
>> I have an 80 Vanagon with a 95 Jetta gas engine in it but it is so new that
>> I have not road tested for mileage. Would love to have a hybrid system in
>> it.
>>
>> Charlie Ikard
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
>> Of Jim Akiba
>> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:17 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Hybrid Vanagon
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind that a hybrid will be a total waste of time/money for
>> the vast majority of vanagon owners. Vanagons are typically long-haul
>> vehicles, not city drivers, the hybrid's benefits will be almost
>> completely lost on long haul driving. not to mention that $15k-$25k
>> buys a lot of gas. You *might* be able get 100mpg by installing a
>> 200cc engine and driving at 35, but it's a lot easier/cheaper to get a
>> motorcycle. Getting the hybrid into a vanagon it totally doable, in
>> fact with a synco front end, you could do an easy(relatively speaking)
>> front/rear electric/gas hybrid.. but it isn't, and likely will never
>> be worth it.
>>
>> Jim Akiba
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:27 PM, M'obeechi <obeechi@runbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want to give up on gasoline completely - I'm spending too much on
>>>
>> the subaru engine (now the second type, a turbo) to walk away... but I think
>> the writing is on the wall for a hybrid approach. Not sure if Fuel Cell
>> still stands a change (MBZ hasn't given up on them), and then there are
>> electric and gasoline hybrids... I just want to extend my mileage in the 100
>> miles per gallon range... but yeah, waiting it out makes sense... However, I
>> do want to be among the first 100 vanagon owners who take the plunge into
>> doing this. Might be tricky figuring out how to squeeze this into the
>> Vanagon.
>>
>>> From: Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Hybrid Vanagon
>>>
>>>
>>>> My initial thought on this is that if you want to get away from internal
>>>> combustion entirely or even mostly, than you might want to wait 3-5
>>>>
>> years.
>>
>>>> There are a number of technologies or approaches that are 'on the cusp',
>>>>
>> so
>>
>>>> to speak, that should have either failed or made a breakthrough by then
>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>> the practical options should be clearer.
>>>>
>>>> Cya,
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "M'obeechi" <obeechi@RUNBOX.COM>
>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 5:50 PM
>>>> Subject: Hybrid Vanagon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was looking up hybrid vehicles. Something in Wikipedia was saying
>>>>
>> better
>>
>>>> to start with a car that has a manual transmission, that the AT wastes
>>>> energy. But they were talking about a conversion that removes the
>>>>
>> internal
>>
>>>> combustion engine. I'm interested in maybe one day putting in electric
>>>> motors or what-ever-is-good to supplement the engine in my vanagon (which
>>>>
>> is
>>
>>>> Subaru at this point). Thing is, I have an Automatic and want don't want
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>>> consider a manual.
>>>>
>>>> Can someone point me in the right direction. Has this been discussed or
>>>>
>> done
>>
>>>> with a vanagon yet. I'm not really thinking propane, I'm in Southern
>>>> California, plus my engine is being switched over to a turbo, and since
>>>> propane needs high compression, I don't think that would make sense.
>>>>
>>>> The paper today said that jet fuel cost has increased 80% this year. I
>>>>
>> won't
>>
>>>> be surprised if gasoline reaches 25 dollars a gallon within the decade.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----- End Original Message -----
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
opf
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