Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 08:23:45 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: I learned alot about my brakes today....
In-Reply-To: <602350.16453.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi David.
Good to know that dealership VW pads make a big difference. Thanks for
that tip. Now that I have my Jetta 2.0 engine installed, I'll need
better brakes! (kidding).
But seriously, I may replace the front pads with pads from the dealer.
I notice a *little* brake fade. (or rather the brakes overall, are
just not as good as I think they could be)
As for "fade", I agree about how the term is commonly used in regards
to brakes. Brake fade is generally caused by too much heat. This is
caused, in part, by overuse/misuse of brakes, and/or worn parts. Fade
can be caused by foreign matter (oil, grease, brake fluid)
contaminating the shoes/pads. (Actually, the brakes would be less
effective right away with contamination) And parts that arer
maladjusted or improperly installed, i.e. rubbing all the time, don't
help either.
The extra heat will likely cause (at the very least!) glazing on the
pads/shoes and rotors/drums. This leaves a poor surface (smoother) so
there is less friction.
One other aspect. IMHO, the substandard brake system design on the
Westfalia contributes to brake fade. This is likely limited to the
older models (like mine. '81), but with the extra weight, one has to
be mindful of leaving more stopping room and to not over use the
brakes. But that's nothing new to people on this list!
I think that by "fade", Craig meant that the pedal was sinking or
going lower than it should, over a short period of time.
I hope he sorts it out. Sounds like he's put a lot of work into his Vanagon!
Neil.
--
Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:53 PM, David Kao <dtkao0205@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My understanding of brake fading is reduced stopping ability of the brake.
> It is not brake pedal sinking lower. If the pedal is too low for the stopping
> to begin it is normally the drum bakes that need adjustment. If brake fades
> my understanding is somehow the pads and shoes (rear) are not able to slow the
> drums and discs fast enough.
>
> Somehow when I used after market pads (at least twice, possibly three) they
> never worked. I suffered from brake fading for a long time until I listened
> to wife and spent $70 for a set of OEM pads from a VW dealer. The brake fading
> problem went away instantly. Not once, at least twice. Possibly three times.
> After that I learned my lessons hard and used only OEM pads. People usually
> need such lessons before they will believe it.
>
> I use after market brake shoes and they work fine. But OEM shoes lasted a
> very long time. I will not waste any more time and money on after market
> pads and shoes.
>
> David
>
>
> --- neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>> Hi Craig.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:27 PM, craig cowan <phishman068@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The mechanic who failed it tells me the pedal is too low and it needs to be
>> > pumped a few times to get up. ..... Well yesterday i bled the
>> > brakes and it seemed to give the pedal a bit more of a consistent feel, but
>> > the pedal is still low and fades a bit.
>>
>> By "fades a bit", do you mean the pedal sinks a bit after you pump it
>> up, sinks even if not pumped up, or that it returns (if brakes not
>> used) to the lower pedal height some time after you have pumped pedal
>> up?
>>
>> Regardless of pumping, if it sinks, that might mean master cylinder problem.
>>
>> If it returns to the "lower" height, then the need to pump up the
>> brakes can also mean the shoes aren't adjusted right.
>>
>> I'm not certain if a really worn drum would make it impossible to
>> adjust the shoes out far enough, but this could be the case. i.e. you
>> adjust shoes as far as possible, but you still need to pump the brakes
>> to push the shoes out far enough. Kinda guessing on that one though!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
>> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>
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