Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:30:13 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Xantrex XM 1000 PRO + Batteries in Parallel
In-Reply-To: <E1KHrds-0004Du-Tm@garm.runbox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Batteries permanently connected in parallel have to be the matched and the
same age/condition. If not the stronger one will discharge into the weaker
one. If space permits consider two golf cart batteries in series. Standard
GC batteries will be ~200 A/H rate and will support that inverter quite
well. Other wise consider 2 100A/H (Group 31). This will also work but the
GC will last a lot longer.
I have a Toshiba laptop that also does not like the inverter power. I
purchased a 12 volt power brick for it that works better but still seems
to take a lot of current operate it. It will only charge the lap top
battery when it is off.
Yes, the 2C discharge is the maximum recommended sustained draw. My
minimum comment was referring to time, not current.
Remember as you add larger batteries, you need to charge them. You need to
provide some heavy wiring all the way from the alternator to however you
control charging and then to the battery.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
M'obeechi
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:49 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Xantrex XM 1000 PRO + Batteries in Parallel
I posted a reply to this thread already (last night) but it didn't post
(though maybe its my fault?).
I have this same inverter and in using it on two different occasions
(actually periods) my laptop battery died a slow death. I have a MacBook
Pro with a first generation Intel Core Duo. Not sure if this is
coincidence or not, but I am afraid to try a third battery on this
inverter (which I haven't got just yet). The slow death I refer to is a
shortening of the discharge that continues to diminish. until its unplug
while running at your risk. Yes my laptop did get very hot. Like a little
furnace. Though my laptop, and that iteration, was always hot. I have SMC
Fan Controller and at one point only one fan was working, then later no
fans were working. I had Apple service the laptop, and now both fans are
working, and by setting the fans at 4000 rpms with SMC Fan Controller I
can keep temps to between 50 and 60 degrees celsius. Some apps, like
Fusion, cause the temp to raise (up to 60 C), but that may be another
problem within my VM. Before servicing the laptop was as high as 80, even
with jumps to 90 (if I recall right), and was hot to the touch (the metal
behind the function keys), though now this metal is tolerable to touch.
Oh, and I did try to re-calibrate the laptop battery on the second
occasion.
I say all this, because it makes it less clear if the heat was because of
the inverter. Also, the heat generated by the laptop (which was hot
running from Household current, a real house) may have hurt the second
battery that died?... I do however, remember my first occasion to use the
inverter and it was really hot, but.. I also had placed the laptop on the
foldout bed (rear seat) and that velour would retain heat...
I am thinking of switching to a pure sine wave inverter. If someone is
using a MacBook Pro with this inverter with no problems, I'd be interested
to know.
This talk of a 100 amps draw possibly damaging the 12 volt battery and
setting it up for explosion is disturbing. I'm planning on joining three
deep cycles in parallel. I know that you want to match battery types (ie
flooded with flooded), but please tell me that battery sizes don't have to
be exact, since my battery is under the rear seat is larger than possible
under the front seats.
When you connect batteries in parallel do you have to join the ground and
the hot-red of each battery to each other (A to B and B to C in case of
three batteries, I don't mean A to C), or can you wire each of three
batteries to a central plate, and then also wire your inverter and 12 volt
accessory plugs to this same central plate (what is the word for this?).
Maybe it makes sense to have a circuit breaker to prevent a discharge rate
that could damage your battery? (Or could a load controller do the same
thing? And who is a good manufacturer of a load controller?).
5C rate? What is this? How do you calculate it? Okay, googled discharge
rate, but this is a little confusing
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-16.htm - I'm hoping that I
can get three batteries together which will allow for 200 AH.
The Xantrex XM 1000 is GFI protected (or is that CGFI). Do you really need
the household plugs to be also GFI protected? Do you really need both
inverter and plugs to be CGFI? (if yes, ouch, cause I found some nice
rotating plugs).
You say 2C is a minimum, but this is minimum is length of time isn't it,
but in discharge rate isn't this a maximum rate of discharge? Plus, is
this some standard for all 12 volt flooded batteries?
I would like to be able to use my MacBook Pro without the inverter and the
MacBook Pro's power brick (power supply) - even bought a female emPower
type of plug from Hypertronics distributor Kensington, but that, as well
as a cigar lighter receptacle adaptor (with fan) from BatteryGeek will not
charge the MacBooks battery.
(Though there is someone from Standford who has posted how to cut the mag
tip from the powerbrick and connect it to a universal kit to both power
and charge your MacBook Pro - but this still means needing a bulky
external object, and the 19.5 Volts setting for the MacBook Pro versus the
16 volts of the MacBook can have a wattage which exceeds a cigar light
receptacle - so this solution would be better if joined to an M plug
courtesy of Powerlet http://www.powerlet.net/products/plugs_sockets.php )
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Nice inverter for making coffee...Xantrex XM 1000 PRO
> Some thing to consider with this inverter:
> $99 seems to be a price too good to be true. Is it a genuine Xantrex?
> Even when switched off, it draws some power. Long term storage will
> require disconnecting or charging the battery to keep it from being run
> down.
>
> Under full load, you are looking at a 100 amp plus draw. You need some
> battery capacity to back this up. A 60A/H battery will be getting pulled
> near a .5C rate which will cause internal damage. The damage can include
> some internal plate deformation and shorting resulting in future nasty
> battery failure. Yes, one of those unexplained melt down almost
exploding
> deals. You really want to stay in the 2c range (discharge at 2 hour
rate)
> minimum and understand that deep cycle batteries are rated at 5 and/or
20
> hour rate. The faster the draw, the lower the capacity is that is really
> available.
>
> If the inverter should be used while your charging relay or however you
> charge the battery is closed, all that wiring and the wiring from the
> alternator to that point will have to carry that load. Be sure it is up
to
> the task.
>
> If you do hardwire to the other outlets in the van, wire so it does not
> feed the fridge and make sure all outlets after it are or are protected
by
> a GFI.
>
> Most appliances and laptops will work fine with the modified sine wave.
> Pay attention to laptop and cell phone batteries though as the ripple
from
> the modified sine wave will sometimes cause these batteries to become
> heaters. If a 12 volt charger or supplies is available for these
devices,
> use it. It will be more efficient than the inverter anyway for these
> applications.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of
> Poppie Jagersand
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:50 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Nice inverter for making coffee...Xantrex XM 1000 PRO
>
> I just bought one of these at Canadian tire.
> No-load current is quite low, so leaving it on for an 8h night
> is not a big deal on a 60Ah+ deep cycle battery.
>
> Note to Canadians: The Canadian tire web site says $149,
> but the shelf sticker in my store said $99, and that 's what it rang
> up for. Maybe I was just lucky.
>
> B.t.w. One or another of their inverters are almost always on
> sale it is just a matter of waiting until the one you want is.
>
> MArtin
>
>
> --- On Fri, 7/11/08, Gary Duncan <Gary.Duncan@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> From: Gary Duncan <Gary.Duncan@COMCAST.NET>
> Subject: Re: Nice inverter for making coffee...Xantrex XM 1000 PRO
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Received: Friday, July 11, 2008, 1:43 PM
>
> Thanks for the heads up and review on this inverter!
> Imagine waking up to the smell of fresh coffee!
>
> Now, how to turn both the coffee maker And the Inverter on at 6AM?
> I'm thinking that I wouldn't want to run the Inverter all night.
>
> Some kind of a 12v timer?
>
> Any Ideas out there?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Paul Guzyk <paullist08@GUZYK.COM>
>
> > I've been camping around California the last week. Before I left I
> > installed a (refurbished) Xantrex Pro XM 1000 inverter I got off of
> > Ebay for around $135.
> >
> > This is a really nice inverter. It outputs 1000 Watts continuously,
> > and up to 2000W for short periods of time.
> >
> > The inverter has an automatic transfer switch. The 110VAC side can
> > also be hardwired to your shore power inlet. Then connect your
> > inside 110VAC receptacles downstream from the inverter. This means
> > when you have shore power connected all internal outlets get power
> > from the shore connection and inverter simply passes through.
> >
> > If you lose shore power, you just turn on the inverter and now all
> > your inside 110V outlets are powered via the inverter. Simple and
> > easy.
> >
> > The status panel/on off switch for the inverter can be remotely
> > mounted anywhere you like using a regular RJ11 four wire telephone
> > extension cord, so you could hide the inverter in a cabinet etc and
> > have the switch panel in a more convenient location. The panel has a
> > digital display that can show input voltage, input currant, and
> > output power.
> >
> > The inverter is silent until you put a big load on it, then the
> > cooling fan kicks in, but only as long as needed. For small devices,
> > the fan never runs.
> >
> > The best thing about this inverter? It powers my 110V drip coffee
> > maker with ease. I can have a whole pot of brewed coffee without the
> > hassle of the propane stove and Melita. I have also used the
> > inverter for regular things like laptops, cell chargers, shaver, etc.
> >
> > I installed it close to my camping battery and connected it with
> > heavy gauge wire. For now it's behind the drivers seat battery, I
> > have to figure out the best place to permanently mount it. In a
> > Westy it may fit in the "secret compartment" between the water
> tank
> > the AC receptacle.
> >
> > http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj285/baboonia/vanagon/IMG_6836.jpg
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
----- End Original Message -----
