Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:02:35 -0700
Reply-To: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Roger Whittaker <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: stealth camping article
In-Reply-To: <11dcddf80807191927r63846deey3a9360370bf578e2@mail.gmail.com>
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dear volks
last time i was in portland we spent 2 nights on the street
we arrived very late the first night and parked beside our friends apartment
building
the second night we were held up on our journey by a night too late due to
dinning fun with friend
we made full use of friends apartment facilities and if they had not been
available then there are many public places that are
we did not put the top up
did not cook ... heck we were surrounded by restaurants
and we were also under the careful watchful eye of a real homeless person
he placed his boxes carefully around the landing of the loading dock and
climbed in for the night
he thought it was safe enough ...
i am unsure if portland has any sort of law against parking where we did ...
there were many vehicles there as this was a busy neighborhood
i read the article about venice and parking
and have not seen any behaviors detailed that i would associate with VW
Westfalia ownership and camping along the way
if any readers of this post are given to defecating in peoples gardens ///
well they are not welcome anywhere i travel ...
i mean really if there were a case where one was forced to make use of
natural surroundings when nature calls ...
there are shovels ... one simply has to dig a hole ...
which by the way is what many who work in the woods do ...
as for the rest of the behaviors
drug dealing prostitution ... gangster activity
hmmm ... a fellow or couple in a westie traveling through are clearly not
persona *non* grata
heck anyone openly or covertly practicing these activities at a Vanagon Club
meet would likely be shown the door or gate as it were
this law appears to be directed at persons living in their vehicle ...
yes yes i know if a sign goes up that says no overnight parking then it
means all of us who drive...
then drive to the next street
be respectful of the people who have paid for the street ...
and pay taxes and keep their lawns looking nice...
if you want to be stealth then travel to a part of town where there are
people living in the streets
park under a bridge like lots of homeless
oh too scary ... the real homeless are there ...
then you require the care and protection of police and a secure camp ground
we are owners of vintage and rare vehicles ...
not refuges in search of the grace and good will of those forced to offer it
simply because they have it on the day we arrive on their street
to argue that this is a law set against VW westie owners is like arguing
against laws against taking money from the bank with out proper procedure
if a cop knocked my up in the middle of the night i would present my
documents the same as if he pulled me over in the day time
then i would get on with my life ... if he said to move on then i would ...
and i would expect the same sort of protection from my own area
if a cop comes a knocking ...
be respectful to them
if he asks what you are doing there ...
tell him you have been driving since when ever and pulled over to sleep for
a while
once rested you intend to continue to your destination ...
chances are they will drive by once or twice both to see how you are doing
and also to see if you really leave
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Christopher Gronski <gronski@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Here's the entire article for the benfit of the archives...
>
> Christopher
>
> Venice considers curbing its parked population
> By MARTHA GROVES, Los Angeles Times
> July 19, 2008
> LOS ANGELES
>
> The pleasant climate and quirky vibe of Venice, a coastal neighborhood of
> Los Angeles, have long attracted the wealthy and destitute alike. Poets,
> painters and movie stars mingle with itinerant surfers and scruffy street
> dwellers in one big colorful tableau.
>
> But in recent years the enclave's laissez-faire attitude has faded, in
> large
> part because many Venetians who once prided themselves on their
> unflappability have gotten fed up with the dozens of dilapidated cars,
> recreational vehicles and campers that line their narrow residential
> streets, providing shelter for people who have lost their jobs, want to
> break into show business or simply enjoy living near the beach.
>
> In addition to tying up much of the neighborhood parking, residents say,
> some RVs are hotbeds of drug use and prostitution. Residents report that
> occupants defecate in alleys, party into the wee hours and dump waste into
> gutters and storm drains. For a time, a man named Butch was leasing four
> parked RVs, none of which he owned, to a succession of occupants.
>
> Some residents are pressuring the city of Los Angeles to restrict overnight
> parking on neighborhood streets in the hope of recapturing the curbs and
> reducing visual blight.
>
> In a further sign of a shift in attitudes, the Venice Neighborhood Council
> recently declared that sleeping on the streets in vehicles of any kind was
> inappropriate. The council established a committee whose stated task is "to
> end vehicular living on city streets." Such thinking represents a marked
> departure for the council, which four years ago had an agenda that included
> stopping gentrification, building more low-income housing and helping the
> homeless.
>
> The change is long overdue, said one Venice activist. "This particular
> community has not stood up the way others have and said, 'Sorry, you can't
> poach here. It's unacceptable to live on our streets and defecate in our
> gardens,' " said Mark Ryavec, co-chairman of the new committee. "What's
> going on is that a new majority in Venice is saying we really do not accept
> this."
>
> For months, he and other activists have been pushing Councilman Bill
> Rosendahl, who represents the area, to find a solution to what has seemed
> an
> intractable problem. Rosendahl said he has been studying programs in Santa
> Barbara and Portland, Ore., that provide overnight parking spaces and
> services for RV residents.
>
> In Los Angeles, it is illegal to live in vehicles on public streets, but
> police say the law is difficult to enforce. Officers must be able to peer
> inside vehicles for evidence that people are cooking and sleeping in them,
> but savvy occupants simply refuse to open the door.
>
> The larger issue, Rosendahl said, is how to ease the situation for
> residents
> without stepping on the rights of individuals who choose or feel forced by
> circumstances to live in cars or RVs.
>
> "Where do these campers go?" he said. "Society has to find ways to put them
> in places that don't criminalize them. It's challenging not just for me but
> for other cities and regions."
>
> Nikoletta Skarlatos, a Hollywood makeup artist, considers herself a
> dedicated Venice denizen willing to endure a variety of urban ills to live
> in the funky community. Increasingly, however, she views her eclectic
> pocket
> as squalid and unlivable.
>
> Some days, rusty RVs and campers line both sides of her block. Noisy
> transients gather at the corner dry cleaner, and inebriated indigents
> harass
> her. Topping all that is the daily ritual of cleaning up human feces by her
> garage door.
>
> In April, Skarlatos led Rosendahl and two dozen neighbors on a tour of the
> streets and the H-shaped alley that many of them share. Residents pointed
> out signs on nearby commercial blocks that prohibited overnight parking.
> "Why do they get them and we don't?" they asked. (Rosendahl later
> ascertained that they were counterfeit and had them removed.)
>
> When Rosendahl began listing his accomplishments on homelessness, residents
> shouted him down. "These people are not homeless," Skarlatos said. "They
> are
> here because they want to live near the beach and not pay taxes.
>
> "They have plants and dogs and cats and beds and curtains and bicycles
> attached and TVs and radio and music," she added. "That to me is not a
> homeless person."
>
> Many RV dwellers say they subsist on Social Security or disability checks
> and view mobile living as better than being in a shelter. Some have jobs,
> cell phones and e-mail accounts.
>
> Frank August, 57, who works occasionally as a salesman, was standing
> outside
> his motor home one recent evening. Years ago, he paid $1,500 a month for a
> Venice apartment, but he has lived in the vehicle since he adopted an
> ailing
> pit bull and could not find a landlord who would rent to him.
>
> "It's got everything, from wood floors to solar panels," he said of the
> motor home, which August said he parks on commercial blocks to avoid
> offending neighbors.
>
> Under prodding from residents, the city of Los Angeles is considering
> whether to impose "overnight parking districts" throughout much of Venice.
> Critics say the program, which allows permit-only parking from 2 a.m. to 6
> a.m., merely tends to move the problem.
>
> At a contentious hearing in June held by the city's Bureau of Engineering,
> activists spoke on both sides of the issue. Critics said restricted parking
> proposed for five zones in Venice, including Skarlatos' area, would limit
> public beach access.
>
> In a letter to the bureau, Steve Clare, executive director of the Venice
> Community Housing Corp., contended that restricted parking would deny
> access
> for late-night fishing on Venice Pier, late-night grunion observation and
> "the simple pleasure of walking along the Ocean Front Walk and the Venice
> canals."
>
> He also called the proposed limits "a not very thinly veiled scheme to
> eliminate homeless people with vehicles from our community."
>
> Rosendahl said the overnight parking districts should be in place by late
> August, unless they are appealed to the California Coastal Commission.
>
> (c) 2008 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
>
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Evan Martin <7martinn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > not Friday and I'm sure at least a few have seen this article but thought
> > I'd throw it out there:
> >
> >
> http://www.startribune.com/nation/25629904.html?location_refer=Most%20Viewed:Nation
> >
>
--
roger w
There are two kinds of jobs in the world:
Picking up garbage and telling people things.
Successful people do both, with the same good attitude. (riw)
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