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Date:   Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:09:35 -0400
Reply-To:   Chris S <szpejankowski@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:   Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:   Chris S <szpejankowski@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:   Re: The DEEP, DARK secret of fiberglass exhaust wrap discovered
Comments:   To: Mike <mbucchino@charter.net>
In-Reply-To:   <010101c8ec48$5ce57080$0c00a8c0@mike2d93581d7f>
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I love it when you guys get all techie!

Cost vs benefit per given application, correct? I've purchased my WBX with a stainless exhaust from a gentleman who lives in Canada where such a system makes perfect sense. Obviously the gentle Atlanta climate, where I live, makes stainless steel exhaust seem extravagant and unnecessary, but damn, it sure is pretty to look at! I think I'll keep it.

Chris S.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Mike <mbucchino@charter.net> wrote:

> Rust is a form of corrosion; corrosion is not neccessarily > related only to rust (breakdown of a ferrous metal due oxidation). > I've held FAA Airframe & Powerplant mech licenses for 27 years, so I do > have formal training and years of hands-on experience. Aviation mechanics > frequently replace stainless steel exhaust sytem components on aircraft due > to corrosion, not rust. The high temps and gas flow cause erosion of > materal, eventually thinning things enough to cause a hole to blow out > (usually on the bends where concentration is highest). This corrosion > process happens many years later than rusting would happen on a mild steel > system, so the benefits of using an all-stainless system is obvious. > My question is; > How long does the average expensive OEM Vanagon mild steel system last, > versus a very expensive aftermarket stainless Vanagon exhaust sytem, if all > factors are the same? The added cost of the stainless system must greatly > outweigh the shorter life of the stock system. How many stock set-ups > would > you have to replace, to equal the cost of the more expensive one? > I'm not factoring in replacement labor here, just parts. > > Mike B. > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "BenT Syncro" <syncro@GMAIL.COM> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: The DEEP, DARK secret of fiberglass exhaust wrap discovered > > > On 7/22/08, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >> >> >> stainless has a lot of properties that make it not as good as steel in >> many applications. >> >> I just want to interject something. Stainless steel is still steel. You >> must >> mean mild or carbon steel. >> As I understand it, stainless steel is nothing more than carbon steel with >> some chromium added to >> mix. As the chromium oxidizes, it forms a protective layer onto >> the iron/steel in the alloy in a similar >> way that zinc coated steel (galvanized) forms a protective layer over the >> steel when the zinc turns >> into zinc oxide. The difference, of course, is the chromium is >> 'throughout' >> the material. It's in the >> alloy. My best non-metal comparison I can think of are countertops. In >> Corian (and similar types) the >> coloring is throughout the material vs. laminated tops such as Formica >> (and >> similar types) which only >> has coloring close to the surface. Corian would be similar in wear >> characteristics as stainless steel. >> Surface wears (chromium turns to chromium oxide) but it's still Corian >> through and through. Formica >> wears out (zinc in galvanized steel turns to zinc oxide) and eventually >> the >> material of the countertop >> is no longer protected. Same case with the metals. Stainless steel just >> keeps going in going but not >> forever. Eventually the material gets thin enough and as some have pointed >> out - rusts through. >> >> The amount of chromium content will determine at what rate the stainless >> steel will deteriorate. Why not >> dump more chromium in the mix? Well, chromium is not as strong as carbon >> in >> steel. The more chromium, >> the weaker the material. Like anything else, it's a balancing act of >> anti-corrosive properties vs. strength. >> Which brings me to the Vanagon application. Vendors offer not just >> different >> alloys of stainless steel but >> different gauge as well. Since there is no independent testing of the >> durability of these products, it would >> be good for someone to start tracking how well these commercially >> available >> systems are holding out. You >> know... more chromium wears longer from a corrosion point of view. But >> they >> wear faster as in from cracks >> due to metal fatigue, etc. >> >> Aw, what do I know. I'm no metallurgist. English isn't even my first >> language. Steel, steal, sounds the same >> to me. >> >> >> >> BenT P. Ipez >> >


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