Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:30:59 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: a newbie with some problems: hissing 2.1 L WBX and thrown belt
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the only problems i've ever seen with waterboxer studs is the nuts getting
corroded badly at the top of them,
and then if someone just 'unscrews' them wiht force...........and there's
corrosion inside the engine anyway.......
that's when the break off at the bottom of the stud.
that's what i've seen anyway. It's scary undoing the nuts sometimes too.
Seems the stud twists before the nut starts actually unscrewing. Feels that
way anyway.
I did remove one nut by 'dental work' ........carefuly grinding away bits of
it until I was sure it would release from the stud.
I can not agree that stretched studs is why combustion gases get into the
coolant., but I'll consider that.
I think it's because the metal ring at the top of the barrel, just being
metal-to-metal on both sides with no sealant, can't ' really seal that well
after many heat-cool cylcles.....
And next in line is that little green o-ring- and all of those that I see
are hard as rock, and not doing any sealing......
which allows coolant to get to the metal rings. And of course the coolant
is 6 years old and yucky ..........etc.
The design is a joke really. It is purely and totally an adapted air-cooled
design.
I love what one guy told me ..........
to 'explain' the waterboxer engine : They told the engineers they had 30
days to come up with a watercooled oppssed 4 engine for the Vanagon. It
looks it !!
Perfect example of 'it works as long as it's perfect, german engineering.'
In theory it works just fine.
in the real world...........years of the same coolant and general abuse
......
it can't work for all that long at all.
But we love 'em anyway !
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
To: "'Scott Daniel - Turbovans'" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>;
<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: RE: a newbie with some problems: hissing 2.1 L WBX and thrown belt
> Your right, the head studs on the waterboxer do not pull out like they did
> on the air cooled engines. They do stretch though and their failure is the
> real reason you get the internal combustion gas leaks into the cooling
> system.
>
> As for the AMC heads being junk you are right. I try my best to find good
> used heads and refurb them as needed.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:03 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: a newbie with some problems: hissing 2.1 L WBX and thrown
> belt
>
> you'd think he would have mentioned or noticed bright red LED warning
> lights......
> so maybe none were on, or just at the last minute.
>
> and sure..........he could have cooked the engine pretty badly.
> I have never seen studs pull from overheating, and given that the heads
> are
> not long or flat-bottomed.........
> can't say I've seen 'warped' but I SURE can say you need to pay very
> careful
> attention to how much the other 'water retention gasket' is compressed
> when
> the head is bolted down.
> ( btw........everyone always mentions AMC heads - I have an AMC head that
> only has 10K miles on it, and it is massively out of correct dimension.
> Like it's a joke. The outer water gasket pinched and leaked after those
> 10K miles - so be careful there )
>
> but .......all you can do is get some liquid for coolant in it to see if
> it'll still run, find an external leak if there is one........fix that....
> and hope you still have a viable engine.
> And besides............unless the head gaskets have a known and reasonable
> history - like say only 50K max on them..........
> ALL used waterboxer engines need headgaskets ( and freshen up the valves
> is
> nice too ) ..
> it's a joke system. And it sure can't work for 10 years, in most cases
> anyway.
>
> I generally use high quaility regular green anti-frz, mixed 50/50 with
> decent water......and I had machinist's water solubable
> oil..........'cutting oil'..........as a water pump lube and rust
> inhibutor.
> Been doing that to cars and Vanagons for 25+ years.....it works just great
> !
> scott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:58 AM
> Subject: Re: a newbie with some problems: hissing 2.1 L WBX and thrown
> belt
>
>
>> The belt was the alternator and water pump drive belt. Whan it failed
> the
>> alternator warning light should have came on to let you know that
>> soemthing
>> was wrong and you need to immediatley shut the engine down and check it
>> out.
>>
>> If you continued to run the engine without the water pump turning, then
>> you
>> overheated the coolant in the engine and the heads to the point that it
>> boiled out probaly vilently and this sudden steam creation with all the
>> oter
>> physics invleved exposed your engine to what I call a trauma. You have
> to
>> accept that you did some damage. The head gaskets take the first hit
> with
>> warped heads, cases, pulled head studs and other nasties to follow.
>>
>> As for coolant type there is a lot of opinons. To me the most important
>> thing is to avoid mixing coolant types and if you are in an area with
> hard
>> water, use distilled. I am taking a liking to the Zerex GO-5 and some of
>> the
>> long life pink coolant such as is used for Diesels. I realy have not
> seen
>> any problems with regular Prestone Green or the nwer univesal stuff. I
>> find
>> that the recomended VW Blue coolant and Dex-cool will sometimes leave
>> clumping deposits. Note that the VW RED coolant is not Dex-Cool.
>>
>> Why folks wait until something is wrong to learn about how the warning
>> lights are supposed to work is a bit beyond me. Any car can have cooling
>> system and oil system failures. Knowing how the lights work and what to
> do
>> is extremly important. They are self testing and should be checked
>> whenever
>> the engine is started.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Thomas Kortus <tkortus@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>Reply-To: Thomas Kortus <tkortus@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>Subject: a newbie with some problems: hissing 2.1 L WBX and thrown belt
>>>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:27:56 -0700
>>>
>>>Help!
>>>
>>>I just bought a 89 vanagon and i had just turned ont on my street after
> a
>>>5
>>>hour drive only to hear a very loud hissing sound from the engine. I
>>>pulled
>>>over immediately and the hissing continued and eventually died out.
> There
>>>is coolant on the engine and a belt was off. the belt goes around the
>>>pulley to the far right of the engine. the coolant tank is bone dry.
>>>
>>>I am completely new to vanagons and to this engine (2.1. L wbx) i had a
>>>'67
>>>split window for about 7 years.
>>>
>>>i am thinking and hoping that this is just a hose, but i don;t even know
>>>what to put in this engine for coolant. or where to put it.
>>>
>>>any help would be very appreciated.
>>>
>>>also as i was coming home the fan up front was working overtime at
> points
>>>in the trip. i am assmuning that this fan is designed to help the
> cooling
>>>process is that right?
>>>
>>>thank you- i am looking forward to learning more about this van nd these
>>>engines- i guess owning one is the best way to do this- my lessons just
>>>started sonner that i thought they would.
>>>
>>>thanks-
>>>
>>>
>>>thomas
>>>
>>>durham ,NC
>>>'89 vANAGON gl Wolfsburg
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
>>>http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mes
> senger2_072008
>
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