Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:02:38 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Soggy brake pedal
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reply-type=response
I'm always considering the pads and discs too........like if the pads are
glazed.
Also if caliper pistons are sticking or stuck or frozen.
fwiw .....
I went nutty on wanting brakes on an 87 Sycro GL with SVX engine, SA front
brakes, and SC rear disc brakes.
It just would not 'grab' like you'd want.
it slowed down all right, but there was no 'bite' to the brakes.
I did *everything* ........I tried it wiht no pressure limiting valve to the
rear disc brakes, and put on an adjustable pressure limiting valve, I put on
a new MC, I turned the front discs and put in new pads- my normal 'Repco
Deluxe' .......
I gave ALL the particulars to a racing brake shop - about calimper piston
diameters, master cylinder piston diameter, pedal ration ........and they
said it was all about right.
I didn't try a new booster on that vavn ........still wonder if that would
have made any difference.
I never got into this........but there are ways to measure the actual force
in psi at the bads..........to see how hard the hydrualics are pushing on
the pads............this van had staninless braided new hoses on it too.
I finally handed it over ............some people might not have even
noticed it was really perfect - but it sure is nice when the brakes feel
'right there' and you know you could lock up the fronts if you wanted.
When it's really right ...........you always can 'get more' if you need it.
Like to the point of lock-up.
And besides hydrualics.......always need to consider how well the pads can
grab the discs too. that coeffecient of friction there.
Glazed pads and discs happens.
Proper break in of new pads is a factor too.
I think I'm going to price a new booter. On my personal 2WD vanagon,
which I know has a questiionable master cyldiner..........I would love
upgrade everything in the front - new booster, new master, and upgraded
front brakes or at least new discs, calipers and high performance front
pads.
It feels great to have huge confidence in your brakes ! Nothing like
knowing there's always more if you need it. You should be able to lock 'em
up if you want in just about any situation, not that you ever would, but
that's how much breaking power is right - 'more than you could ever use ."
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Brennan" <kimbrennan@mac.com>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Soggy brake pedal
> Yah, the "problem" is that I have another vanagon with awesome brakes.
>
> Both are 91 syncros. The one with the mushy brakes is the Westy (the
> other is a non-GL passenger syncro). Both have Smallcars disc brakes in
> the rear, and upgraded front disk brakes (South African on the Westy,
> Audi on the passenger).
>
> So I step on the brakes on the passenger, and it's simply great. Step on
> the brakes on the Westy and it's not quite panic inducing, but definitely
> gives you something to think about.
>
> Guess it's time to dig out the Bentley and investigate the booster (have
> a master brake cylinder on hand, so figure, if I have to go in there,
> I'll do both at the same time.
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2008, at 8:56 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>
>> you can replace the booster without moving the dash.
>> I would even say DO NOT remvoe the dash to replace the booster.
>> they way you do the boooster is a bit odd........but it comes out, after
>> removing the insturment cluster, then the master cylinder, then
>> unbolting
>> the pedal assembly, and lifting it up enough that you can unbolt the
>> booster
>> from it. Whew.
>>
>> you know 'the test' for a booster, right ?
>> here's how you do that : With engine off, apply the brake a number of
>> times, until you've used up the vaccum in the booster.
>> then , holding down the brake pedal, start the engine.
>> the pedal should suck down an inch or two when the engine starts. if
>> it
>> does......merans the booster is working.
>>
>> I also consider them somewhat 'nebulous' in not so black/white about
>> whether
>> they are really OK or not.
>> Sure would be nice to have a brand new on on hand to try.
>> fwiw ..........I saw a case where someone with a only 4 or 5 year old
>> Honda
>> Civic had both the MC and booster replaced by a Honda dealer - to the
>> tune
>> of $ 800 or so. I know a Honda brake booster is not likely to fail in
>> that
>> time. I called that Honda dealer and talked to them - they said
>> .........if
>> any brake fluid gets into the booster, you have to replace it.
>> In a world with unlimited funds to invest on our Syncro's ..........that
>> would indeed be nice - to replace the booster if any doubt.
>> I also don't see how they can really work as long and as well as they
>> seem
>> to.
>> I'll say this - if there are a lot of miles and years on it, and you
>> can
>> afford a good quality new booster........I don't think that would be a
>> waste
>> of money.
>> scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kim Brennan" <kimbrennan@MAC.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Soggy brake pedal
>>
>>
>>> Okay, I've bled the brakes. My Westy Syncro still has a soggy brake
>>> pedal. If I pump, it gets a little better, but not much. Sometimes I
>>> hear a buzz, and it gets to be the best. If the engine is off, it
>>> feels better, but with the engine running, it feels really mushy. A
>>> friend suggested the brake booster might have a vacuum leak.
>>>
>>> Don't believe I've seen this come up before. Master cylinder, yes, but
>>> not the brake booster. I haven't yet looked in the bentley to see
>>> what's involved. Half afraid the dash will have to come out.
>
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