Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:57:58 -0700
Reply-To: Randal Jett <randal_jett@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Randal Jett <randal_jett@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: ECU optimization -- one quick question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks. I know other people have received good treatment here, and I have hope for the same.
I should add that this van is a solid performer having towed a trailer, a big dual axle rental trailer 6' x 12' covered uhaul, 1,000 miles cross-country with absolutely no issues save the 35 mph slog up some hills in the southern rockies. It's a great van and if and when I have to sell, it will go with full disclosure, and if it has to be sold soon before I track down the ECU options, I will have a clear conscience that it is completely roadworthy.
Ok, that being clear, that I'm in a fine-tuning stage and not a critical broken-down scenario here -- the icU is the integrated circuit unit, a sub-board component either on or beside the motherboard of the eCu. (I use caps to emphasize letters of importance.) My old buddies in the electrical engineering sangha, who I haven't talked to in years, explained it to me once and the details are a little fuzzy, I'll admit, but that was the gist of it. It's just part of the ECu and I could have written that and it would have the same meaning -- trust me.
Exactlty right Scott, that shope screwed me! I'm sure about that. I mean really, what the hell is the ECU doing back in the engine bay with a zip tie on it holdin' it down? I looked at trying to get it back under the seat where I know it belongs, but there is not way to get the connectors through the little hole and I'm not gonna go drilling away just to change the location. There's not enough length on the shang-hi'd harness they sent me off with either. It's got to stay where it is. I keep telling myself I should put a plastic bag around it once I get this little idle/power quirk nailed down.
Now I know the oxygen content is in question but if it's way off, I should be having other problems too. I'm not, in fact some aspects of the burn are getting better week to week, and it's hard to complain when results are flowing in with little reverse negative symptoms. REally I've got no negative weighted symptoms to drag down the positive features of what they did in the shop. Not to sound confusing, I just want it to be known that my van is not in terrible shape at all, it's really the best vehicle I've ever had for any length of time. This thread is about fine tuning.
I am in a remote area. To swap the ECu or AFM would mean going back to the shop that I have good reason to not trust, and they have done little post my insistence for legal action beyond the minimum. If I go for trying to get a list member to send me a good AFM or Euc, I really can't know for sure what I will get. That place that worked on my van, the place that had me stranded in Utah for most of my vacation, where me and two phd. friends spent 3+ days crawling over the engine (instead of casual rock climbing that we went there to do), pulling it apart trying to dry out the cylinders by pushing rag bits into the spark plug holes -- those are not pleasant memories, and gave me good cause to learn about how to work on my own engine. So, it runs as is, and I really can't complain much, becuase I'm getting down the road without stopping to wait for the bucking and lurching to pass. I am happy for that much. It's just that if I have to go to that
shop again, and I just might anyway, they had better be prepared to give me what I need in the way I need it. Not like they would want it if they were me, feeding me tons and tons of information and facts, when all I really needed was a couple of value-based gestures that worked for me. Going back for a AFM/CPU swap heh? I guess the question is also something about can ego afford it. But no, I do still feel they owe me money, and going back without a reply by mail from them, which is what I asked for before they sic'd their sleeze-ball lawyer on my well-meaning ex-fiance lawyer chick. Not the reason for the ending of that relationship, but it didn't help. (Might've helped her in some way, just a guess.) Ah, but I digress.....
I'm still reading your email Scott and will write a second note after I have a sandwich. I think I answered some of your points. Thanks for the quick reply. We'll get this sucker nailed eventually!
Randal
----- Original Message ----
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
To: Randal Jett <randal_jett@YAHOO.COM>; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 4:19:32 PM
Subject: Re: ECU optimization -- one quick question
Hi there !
I hope the list can help you out here, with these issues.
one, would you mind defining 'ICU board' ................???
dont' know what you're talking about there. Very curious.
two ...........re "Removing the eCU for inspecting and the 're-flow'
involved unleashing the unit from the zip-tie and foam pad it was resting on
in the driver's engine bay well."
This sure doesn't sound right.
the ECU on an 86 and later Vanagon with 2.1 engine is mounted under the back
seat, attached to, and under a nice metal cover.
So what could be the deal with your ECU if it's z-tied in the engine
compartmetn somewhere ??
re 'a bad ecu' ...........I just have a few different ones to
try.......known good ones. You should have a known good ECU as a back-up
and for trouble shooting - or.......that's sure one handy way to test for
bad componenets- try swapping in known good used ones.
Iv'e got the same thing going on with my 87 wolfsburg............
though I still don't knwo why you call yours a 1987.5 since we talked about
it, and I have the full blown Wolfsburg treatment with al the goodies and
special equipment, and it's a january 87 production date, so one wouldnt'
think that's 87 and 1/2.
but anyway.........
I'm working on essentially the same thing on mine.
it'll start and run. it runs very weakly at a cold idle.
as though the Air idle Valve isnt' doing it's thing, or the control unit.
Did you consider and test for vaccuum leaks !!?
those can be hard to track down and find, and cause all kinnds of
inconsisent or weak idle and cold idle issues.
i'm very tempted to try out my various compents on my perfectly starting,
idling and running 2.1 waterboxer engine in my 85 Wolfsburg Weekender.
I also can tell I'm fighting, on this particular engine in the 87 Wolfsburg,
very high miles and low compression.......
but even still..........I 'should' be able to get it starting, idling and
running right.
Once underway, like 30 mph .........she just rips too. Very perky and fast.
I can clearly see that the place to start on any real vanagon 'complete
re-do and refurbish' is with a thorough engine job.
Got one right here I need to keep going on- a 2.1 engine. Gotta get those
heads in a machine shop.
sorry to babble here - my bottom line, always consider vacuum leaks. They
can really gettcha.
And it has to be somehwere between..........
the harness, the sensors and inputs, the ECU, the Idle Valve and it's
control unit, or the engine itself.
in any case, it's a 'blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons.'
( and not everyone realizes that 'fluids' include vaccuum, exhaust, air, egr
if equipped, etc. 'fluid' also includes gases.
it's just one or more leakages or bloackages.
WHERE they are, that's the essense of the problem.
find them.........and then it's pretty easy.
and I realized that's why I want to know where someone's broken down van
is.......WHERE it is, is the very first step in getting fluids, or blown out
hoses or whatever where they belong.
scott
www.turbovans.com
fwiw...........read about a Porsche technician - fanatic - he said that all
the ECU's that he's seen and worked on ..............they never actually
fail........but they get cracked soldering joints, and that's how he fixes
them, fixing those failed soldered connnections.
also.........of 25 ECu's or more I've played with on vanagons
..............very, very few have I ever identified as actually faulty.
I always consider the ECU, but I don't automatically go there right away.
and ...........it's very often not one bad thing................but 6 half
bad or weak things that all add up.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randal Jett" <randal_jett@YAHOO.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: ECU optimization -- one quick question
I have been following, with great interest, all the conversations about the
guy with the 1984 ECU issues, looking for a good match, known good or not
ECU, and so forth. It got me thinking about my 1987.5 stock Wolfsburg and
the idle profile post the last shop visit. I had some troubles with that
shop who will remain annonymous because the issues that came from their work
indeed were so serious that I had to enlist legal help to get over our
stalemate. That was then and this is now, so back to my ECU. Here's what I
know and what I've tried so far. Maybe there is some experience on this list
that can help me consider the next opportunity for what to try or do.
My issue is also with the idle, the surge/stall features at requests for
power at the engine, and mpg is, well, just OK enough at close to low-mid
20's
1. Removed and cleaned wiring harness; unwrapped looking for any shorts or
'mystery' wires -- found nothing unusual
2. Did a 'test reflow' on solder on the ICU board paying attention to the
big resistors in particular. I gave only a little heat not wanting to over
charge any of the delicate circuitry that was so painstakenly manufactured
and installed. This, I think, was a very good idea as a first step
3. Removing the eCU for inspecting and the 're-flow' involved unleashing the
unit from the zip-tie and foam pad it was resting on in the driver's engine
bay well. I wiped the cobwebs out of this area before putting the unit back
together clean.
4. Back to the innards of the ECU -- I did observe some gold potential
connections, maybe copper but liked like it could indeed be gold, and I
avoided getting too close to these as the reflow solder operation was
specificalleya to the silver stuff only. I did NOT string solder 'saliva
stringie' all over the board thereby at risk of contamination of these other
colored terminals/PCboard features. So, that's not it at a minimum, I'm
sure.
5. After reinstall of the ECU in the van body, and reconnection of the
engine harness, which I had premarked with all connections and wires without
connection terminations so I would not just start soldering on terminals in
my absent-minded considion when I sometimes get that way with my nose over
the engine -- I did not succomb to it becasue I had taken pictures of the
engine in advance of wiring harness removal to make sure I could remember
where everything went back on. (I learned that on the hard way from another
project years ago.)
6. I tested the reassembled ECu and engine harness configuration, which as
stated above, was identical to the way it was removed. It worked just like
before, with the same idle stumble, surge/stall at acceleration
request/demand and I'm still puzzled.
7. I did not do anything with the oxygen sensor except disconnect it when I
removed the harness and reconnect when I put the harness back on.
So that's it for what I know I have done to it. If any of you, especially
the ones who have had the case open on the ECU, could reply with ideas for
what is possibly going on, and in your experience what other information
would help me, I would be forever grateful in the event that I have gotten
lucky and won a big, big lottery -- I would gladly share the proceeds!
Randal
'87.5 wolfsburg patient stock configuration
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