Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:33:38 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: VW inline four-bangers
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re your note - one of the main issues with Hydrogen, besides making enough
of it effeciently enough, or cheaply enough let's say ( and I don't think
there is an economically viable way yet ) is the need for an entire new
infrastructure to produce, store , and ship it.
Though there are a few Hydrogen refueling stations now - LA has one or two
already.
The gasoline internal cobustion engine .......man has that concept been
developed !
it's highly, highly evolved now ............direct injection for
example.........shutting off cylinders not needed in crusie, etc.
Real air-fuel ratio sensors, not limited range convenstion oxygen sensor
etc.
and.........soon as they started having hybrids..........I thought soon all
vehicles will be gas or diesel electric hybrids.
and of course the newest thing is the plug-in hybrid.
Just saw that Toyota will have one by 2009 or 2010.
Those can get hundreds of miles per gallon on fossile fuel, depending on
your drive cycle.
if you keep it plugged at home, drive say 10 miles to work, it might never
even need to run the fossile fuel engine.
impressive you are so versed in aircraft fuel systems.
planning for inverted flight in any of your car adaptations ? !
electronically control direct injection sure seems like 'the way' for
gasoline internal convenial engines to me, currently.
Those systems are so smart they can detect a problem in one cylinder and
shut down fuel to that cylinder,
BMW has had that for years .
Some of them.......I believe............can control mixture in each
cylinder........and igntion timing in each individual cylinder !
And it is just amazing how nothing has come along to really beat the good
ole piston engine ..........except now it's going to be all about the
electric car ............but driving patterns will change too.
I can't quite see that there will be electric cars that can drive vast
distances across the west at 80 mph,, with a quick refueling every 300 miles
or so, like a good gasoline car can. But maybe they'll get that.
Seems there sure is a LOT of energy packed in fossil fuels...........and I
think we are witinessing the end of the fossile fuel 'mass use' and 'cheap
availbility' era............plus.........
driving as we know it will gradually dissapear .
Already, if you tell a modern car to do 100 % ( WOT ) wide open throttle
with 30 degree of steering angle cranked in, it won't do it.
And when you move the gas pedal to 50 % throttle with an 8 cyldiner engine
....................
with smart throttle by wire systems......it might only have 4 of the
cylinders working with 80 % throttle angle at the throttle body, if that is
the more effecinet way to produce the same amount of thrust. But you can't
tell that's happening from behind the wheel.
we are not that far away from................, when you want to go
somewhere, you program it into the car........perhaps from your computer in
your house..........and then you get in the car, and the car drives itself
there, with speeds fully controlled the whole way etc..........like you were
riding a subway say. Big brother is gonna do that, and it's not that far
off. 20 years I suspect.
So let's do power slides and burnouts while we can !!
And if you can get something more than companies like Honda, BMW, Mercedes,
GM etc..........all the more power to ya !
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@charter.net>
To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: VW inline four-bangers
> Scott,
>
> Thanks.
>
> I'm not an automotive mechanic by any means. But, I am an aircraft
> mechanic (was - haven't worked on them in years) - trained on
> reciprocating engines with updraft carbs, downdraft carbs, pressure carbs,
> pressure injection carbs, internal superchargers, external turbochargers,
> fuel injection systems. But I have never really worked much on automotive
> fuel delivery systems. Oh, I got into a two barreled Solex progressive
> once, and a dual port Webber once, but that is about it. But, I have been
> to a three county fairs, two snow machine races, a sled dog race and a
> goat milking - so I can see and understand a few things - and one is that
> in spite of all the previous technology, there appears to be a little room
> for improvement in fuel delivery systems for conventional engines even
> yet. Not much room, but just a little bit - and it is that little bit that
> I am going to try and squeeze for all it's worth. Beyond that - it will be
> the realm of the hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles. In the meantime,
> we are going to have years of not much in the common market place. And so
> far as Hydrogen as a cheap fuel goes - I looked at that nearly 50 years
> ago, and I came then to the same conclusion in the recent blog on hydrogen
> that was posted to this list To paraphrase - "In Green and environmental
> circles - Hydrogen is the fuel of the future..... and always will be!" It
> was a challenge then. It's a challenge now. And unless some radical stuff
> comes soon, voluminous, efficient, economical cracking of hydrogen away
> from other chemicals with which it is bonded is still a long ways away.
> For the scientist, it will be challenging and fun, if nothing else. But
> for the rest of us -- we are going to continue running on oil based fuels
> for sometime to come. Hopefully. in the meantime, I can squeeze just a
> few more miles per gallon from my rig.
>
> Beyond all this - this ongoing use of combustion engines - BURNING who
> knows what - is the need for that electric car, Otherwise we continue to
> pollute out planet and it's atmosphere. That is not a good thing! hack,
> hack, cough. cough.
>
> Regards.
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> Been done lots.
>> if you are doing the 50 degree tilted over diesel vanagon style engine
>> installation.......
>> some adapter needs to be made - carb to intake manifold.
>>
>> personally, 'I wouldn't'...........EFI is infenitely superior to carbs,
>> and once dialed in, and understood of course.......works excellently.
>>
>> if you want fuel milage - seems that it would have to be EFI to me.
>> there was once, a long, long time ago - 60's I believe..........and
>> electric supercharger or fan blower system , a retrofit device.
>>
>> you need to be careful as blowing down a carb throat can really confuse
>> things, unless you engineer completely from the start for that.
>> fwiw..........when cars used carbs..........back then...........for turbo
>> applications it's whether you draw air through the carb, then pressurize
>> it, or if you blow pressurized air through a carb............throttle
>> shaft seals become a problem or issues....
>> or they would even encase the whole carb in a box.
>>
>> but I am sure you are on top of all that !
>> scott
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:43 PM
>> Subject: VW inline four-bangers
>>
>>
>>> Good Volks,
>>>
>>> Are there any of the VW four bangers that are commonly put into a
>>> Vanagon that ever came stock with a carburetor on them?
>>>
>>> Or for that matter, are there any inline four bangers in ANY model VW
>>> that you are are aware of that came with a carburetor mounted on the
>>> engine? The later the model the better. And with a Webber carb would be
>>> better still.
>>>
>>> Has anyone installed an inline four into a Vanagon and put a carburetor
>>> on it?
>>>
>>> I have been chasing the Omni with the 1700 cc VW/Chrysler engine but it
>>> looks like I'm at a dead end. Need to find something else with a
>>> carbureted VW inline four in it.
>>>
>>> I am chasing a fuel mileage increase, and want to stick with that type
>>> engine on the prototype. I'm testing different fuel delivery
>>> configurations for specific fuel consumption - which really has nothing
>>> to do with miles per gallon per se, because of all the variables, like
>>> gearing, vehicle weight, speed, etc, etc. I want to settle on one
>>> engine, then work the heck out of it and generate some performance
>>> numbers. You see, I have gone into a partnership on a special blower
>>> system that should eventually increase our Vanagon MPG. I provide the
>>> specially designed, engineered and constructed dual squirrel cage
>>> blower...............
>>>
>>>
>>> and the two squirrels do the rest ...... ;-)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John Rodgers
>>> 88 GL Driver
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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