Date:         Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:40:05 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Bentley wiring typo?
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

I like what Dennis is saying here. Makes very good sense.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Bentley wiring typo?


> The problem is your relay is not drawing enough current for the original
> circuit to work properly. Only a small current is needed to keep that
> relay energized once it is pulled closed.
>
> A better relay with a larger coil and real spring may be better suited for
> this application. I can't imagine the Jetta ignition coil needing so much
> more current that the ignition switch can't handle it anyway. This may be
> one of those times where fixing a problem that didn't exist caused more
> harm than good. Adding a relay here also added another point of failure
> and a relay welding closed can be as much of a problem as an ignition
> switch failing.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: neil N [mailto:musomuso@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 11:53 PM
> To: Dennis Haynes
> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Re: Bentley wiring typo?
>
> Thanks Dennis.
>
> I thought I'd reinstall the fridge relay to solve the "handbrake on,
> engine off" problem. Didn't help.
>
> Related to all of this, I think the culprit to the "handbrake on,
> engine off" scenario has been found.
>
> Because the stock Vanagon wire from 15 of ign. switch to the coil, is
> a smaller gauge than what is used by the Jetta coil ( I installed a
> 2.0 Jetta engine), I installed a relay, that is (obviously) triggered
> by the stock ignition wire, to carry power from 30 to this larger wire
> that goes to the Jetta coil.
>
> Something I failed to mention in my original post regarding this odd
> problem. My bad.
>
> This evening, I recreated the scenario where the engine would stop,
> only with key "off" and handbrake on. When this happened, I left the
> handbrake off (down) and pulled the blue wire from the alternator.
>
> Engine stopped.
>
> If I understood everything correctly, as per Mark Drillocks
> suggestions, I'm pretty sure there is a "feedback" of power from the
> alternator to the "coil" relay I installed. Obviously this keeps the
> relay switch closed even if key turned "off".
>
> Odd thing. After engine has been driven a while, this won't happen.
> The ignition switch works as it should. Only seems to happen with a
> cold engine driven ~ 4 minutes.
>
> Funny.
>
> Either I'll install a diode on the blue alt wire, run a new larger
> gauge wire, or see how much current is drawn by the Jetta ignition
> coil and determine if the Vanagon wire can handle the load. (Thanks
> Mark!)
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Neil.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Actually the ground for the fridge relay is done through the starter
>> solenoid. Two reasons for this. The fridge relay will be disabled while
>> starting, (overkill) and the back feed just as the engine starts and
>> before you release the key helps kick start the alternator. Tough to
>> explain but that is the way it works.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of
>> neil N
>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 3:00 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Bentley wiring typo?
>>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I'm sorting out my hand brake "turns off" engine issue. Dennis Haynes
>> kindly wrote and indicated a lack of a fridge relay might the problem.
>> I'll connect the fridge relay from my 182A downstream from the blue
>> wire to aux battery relay to see if it helps.
>>
>> I'm using the '81 camper wiring diagram, but in checking "camper"
>> wiring, I'm curious about 97.32e of Bentley.
>>
>> It shows "to ignition/starter switch terminal 50" from 85 and "To
>> alternator terminal D+" from 86.
>>
>> Does the ground for the relay coil come from the case of the relay?
>>
>> I only have a 182A fridge relay in hand. (plastic case)
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
>>
> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engi
>> nes
>> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engi
> nes
> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/