Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:03:47 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine Replacement Options
In-Reply-To: <BAY125-F34BFD070FC704EAD4DD06FA0700@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Very right, but here's my limited cheapskate reasoning for using
straight "gently used" parts based on the two waterboxer I've rebuilt,
and the dozen or so other engines I've rebuilt (everything from Simca
to 911 to VW diesel)--every engine has some weak spot. Some don't seem
to, but they really do, if you give them long enough.
On the VW diesel, the vanagon anyway, it's the bottom end. It take a
beating. After 100K miles you're looking at underlying bearing
material that's been worn away. But even then, if it hasn't been run
out of oil, they seem to spec out well. Not so the cylinders, which
wear a lot and ALWAYS need rebore.
But not so the Vanagon, or not so much. Yes, my old aircooled engines
got thrashed good, but I just got through tearing down a couple of
waterboxers and they would have probably been good for at least
another 100K on the mains, maybe not so much on the rods where I could
begin to see some wear. They miked like new. There wasn't much
clearance in there to let things get out of hand. And while I don't
have instruments to measure inside diameters to the tenths, I can
compare, and I can tell you it was all round. And even it it had been
out a few tenths, the bearing clearances would have still been within
spec with new bearings, which is what I went with.
But the main journals on both engines were unbelievably nice. On my
engine, I know it had 227,000 on it when I had the bearings in my hand
because I bought the car new. These bearings showed almost no wear. On
the cylinders, I'd say less than a couple of ten thousandths wear at
the most. But I didn't use the block and threw the pistons andy
cylinders away because they had been so hot. I threw the heads away
without pulling the valves. The wrist pins were blue, and the
thermostat housing was a black blob. No way was I using anything from
that engine, especially the block with the now-temperless head studs.
I got a new engine from a listmember and could tell my the condition
of the seals that it had never overheated significantly, so I started
from there.
Used, good blocks that measure within spec seem so easy to get that I
would probably not spend the money for an align bore on a waterboxer,
ever.
Those head studs are 200 or more a set and look like a real PITA to
get out... hard studs never have anything to grab onto! Again, I could
get a "gently used" short block for less than just the cost of the
studs.
My criteria for finding "gently used" is, at a minimum:
1. does it measure right?
2. Is it scored on any surface?
3/ Is it discolored?
4. Pull the oil seals and inspect the sealing O-rings. Do they look or
smell cooked?
5. Are the round parts (inside and outside diameter) truly round?
Jim
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Of all the parts of the waterboxer, the engine case is possibly the most
> consumable of all. The bearing saddles pound out, the case changes shape,
> the cylinder seats get hammered, etc. It is the main reason that many
> rebuilds do not last or provide the performance they should. The WB is not
> as bad as the air cooled engines for this but it still has to be addressed.
>
> A real rebuild reqiures careful measuring of the case and machine work to
> restore the dimensions that have changed. Align bore of the main bearings,
> even machining the inside of the case halves can be reqiured. Don't forget
> to replace those head studs.
>
> Few shops have the ability to do this properly.
>
> As for heads, I have only used 2 sets of AMC. I try real hard to find good
> used and repair as needed. If it hasn't failed in 150K why should it fail
> tomorrow? Almost all head failures are the result of an outside influence
> and when that time comes new or used will not matter as it begins to melt or
> burn up.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>> From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
>> Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Engine Replacement Options
>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:51:42 -0500
>>
>> I always have fear getting
>> > near to a machine shop.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> Rightly so. We all do, using used parts is a risk. But some people say
>> that using new AMC heads is a risk, too, and what's a person to do who
>> is looking for the best bank for the buck in getting a vanagon back on
>> the road. I put my money into the block and everything in it this
>> time, knowing that I could remove and replace anything else that
>> failed.
>>
>> Jim
>
>
>
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