Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:57:01 -0700
Reply-To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?
In-Reply-To: <17D6022A-66B3-4073-BBA4-B22676A6E4C8@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I know its Frday and all, but keep the f*cking politics OFF THE LIST!
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Oliver Mueller-Heubach <
groundhogging@mac.com> wrote:
> Sorry.. too many articles I've had to read for school on whether
> agriculture was a good or bad move for humans (cultural ecology,
> paleoepidemiology, etc.). What we know as non-agricultural and non-
> industrial societies today are almost entirely transformed by fallout
> from world capitalism, so hard to know what it would really be like
> (nowhere near the present conditions, though). Hunter-forager life
> would be more sustainable and there would be more gain per unit
> effort as far as food. There would be no cities, hence less disease
> threat, etc. Limited food would limit reproduction and the lions,
> tigers, and bears would do the rest... I didn't say it would ever
> work again- we are creatures of habit and comfort hounds to boot
>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Joy Hecht wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Oliver Mueller-Heubach <
>> groundhogging@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> Depends on what classifies as a good standard of living. Without
>>> agriculture, we might be considerably better off in some ways,
>>> with more
>>> free time and better health within a certain age range.
>>>
>>>
>> Huh? Without agriculture, what are you going to eat? Either
>> someone else
>> grows it and you buy it, or you spend all your time growing crops.
>> Agriculture is a VERY risky business, takes a lot of time. I don't
>> know any
>> farmers, but what I've read about being one emphasizes CONSTANT
>> work and you
>> can't ever take a break.
>>
>>
>> We might only live to 30, but we would be closer to the earth and
>>> those
>>> around us.
>>>
>>>
>> I'll take another 60 years over that, any day!
>>
>>
>> At least the 1/10 of a percent of the current population that could
>>> sustained without surpluses, etc. I'm not sure we're any better
>>> off than
>>> most pre-industrial civilizations (even with states, organized
>>> religions,
>>> and agriculture).
>>>
>>>
>> I work in non-industrial civilizations. Life is damned hard. A
>> huge amount
>> of work, and nothing to do when you aren't working except maybe
>> talk to your
>> neighbors or get drunk or have sex. No books, no communications, no
>> electricity, no transportation. Little or nothing in the way of
>> schools, medical care, sewage, clean drinking water. Sex leads to
>> yet more
>> children, which makes life even harder, especially when it comes to
>> what
>> land they will inherit to live on - land doesn't multiply the way
>> children
>> do. No privacy whatsoever living in a small village. Basically no
>> choices. But yeah, you are close to the earth, that's for sure.
>>
>> I'll take specialization of labor and longer life over that any
>> day! And
>> for those who want to work on their own cars, why that's an option
>> as well,
>> in the world we live in. Choice is a good thing. If young folks
>> don't
>> choose to work on cars, let's cheer the fact that they can do what
>> they want
>> either way, instead of bemoaning that they don't choose what some
>> on this
>> list prefer.
>>
>>
>> Joy
>>
>
> Oliver Mueller-Heubach
> groundhogging@mac.com
>
--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL
1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
Crescent Beach, BC
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
|