Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:21:53 +0000
Reply-To: "John C..." <Trvlr2001@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "John C..." <Trvlr2001@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?
Hi Scott,
I just "retired"
( if you actuall can "retire" from the government :o) ( Ummm, Boss wouldja please wake me up when I've got my 30 years in :o) !!! ( kidding ) ( Kinda :o)
from Hill Air Force Base near Odgen Utah. (about 40 miles North of SLC )
Yeah, those books will teach you anything & everything !!!
Most All Doubleya Doubleya II Vets
Built there Own homes when they came back...
( If they were that lucky ) !!!
My Dad one of them ( circa 1910 )
Watched and "helped" him as a young boy back in "57" :o)
Yes, Kids on the List ....
That's Nineteen ,,, Fifty Seven !!! :o) ( not Eighteen ) !!!
Why ,,,, the world wasnt even in Color Until what... 65,,,66 ? :o)
best,
John C...
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
> re 'up at the Air Base' Which USAF Air Base ( or otherwise ) would that be.
> love the 'unca Shuga' thing.,
>
> I value my old fashioned books like the one in your slide show too.
> a certain sincerity combined with relative simplicity. even a quality
> 'innocence' is present.
> Like they really wanted you to get it, when the wrote and illustrated that
> book.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John C..."
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?
>
>
> > Hi Jake
> >
> > Hey Happy Birthday Vanagon Buddy !!!
> >
> > As a Machinist for the past 40 + years,
> > I have seen a lot of changes too !!!
> > And as has been stated in various earlier posts
> > Most of the machinists nowadays are from south of the border.
> > And the field has Replaced Skill and Wits;
> > With Software...
> > It's All CNC now days!
> > If I wasn't for the fact that I landed a job with Unca Shuga,
> > I would have gone bankrupt years ago!
> > ( came close in the 2000 market though ) !!!
> > ( saw my $35 stocks drop to 35 Cents )!!!! ;o)
> > And, even up at the Air Base,
> > I was probably one of the few that could hand cut a thread on a lathe !!!
> > Everyone else just used dies ( no brag! just fact :o)
> >
> > Anywho, back to my point ! :o)
> >
> > As a Total DIY 'er,
> >
> > Of all of the books in my library
> >
> > This is probably my Favorite:
> >
> >
> http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=wua8um1.pwfm3v5&x=0&y=-b1h7m3&localeid=en_US
> >
> > Gracias a Dios es Viernes!
> >
> > John C...
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Jake de Villiers
> >
> >> Good points Loren, and a great quote!
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Loren Busch wrote:
> >>
> >> > This got very long, hit delete if in a hurry this morning....
> >> >
> >> > I've been following this thread (that started yesterday) with great
> >> > interest. I decided to wait till Friday to jump in because of the
> >> > little
> >> > Vanagon content but don't take that wrong, I think the subject and the
> >> > thread that has evolved is pertinent to our interests and endeavors.
> >> >
> >> > So, why can some of us understand the working of a motor vehicle and
> >> > even
> >> > work on them while others don't and can't? I think just about
> >> > everything
> >> > that I understand about the past (I just turned 69) and the current
> >> > society
> >> > and maybe even the future has already been said in this thread by the
> >> > time
> >> > I'm writing this. But I want to emphasize several points that have been
> >> > made, especially about how our fathers and grandfathers saw things and
> >> > dealt
> >> > with them and how that affects us today.
> >> >
> >> > The fathers and the grandfathers of many on this list were raised in
> >> > what
> >> > was essentially a rural America, either on a farm or in a farm town and
> >> > community. Especially in the West. And they had lived through the Great
> >> > Depression where you only survived if you could do it yourself and they
> >> > came
> >> > out of the depression with a strong sense of how important every penny
> >> > could
> >> > be. Before WW2 the majority of the population of the US was not in the
> >> > cities, it was rural. There were no 'suburbs', especially out West. And
> >> > that meant you did it yourself. That's the way people survived. And
> >> > when
> >> > it came to motor vehicles we were talking Ford and Chevy and John
> >> > Deere.
> >> > And
> >> > they were very basic machines. The major (and I mean major)
> >> > improvements
> >> > in
> >> > wheels, tires, suspension, steering, engines and transmissions were
> >> > things
> >> > of the '50's and later. A couple of years ago I walked into a friends
> >> > auto
> >> > repair shop and there sat a '39 Pontiac (I believe it was a Pontiac,
> >> > could
> >> > have been a Packard, not important) that my friend maintained for a
> >> > local
> >> > collector. Front suspension was King Pins, no ball joints, leaf springs
> >> > and
> >> > no shock absorbers!! And a flat head straight 8 under the hood. Since
> >> > virtually every male had grown up with tools in his hands maintaining
> >> > such
> >> > vehicles was second nature to the original owners. Now move ahead
> >> > nearly 70
> >> > years and think about the complexity of the vehicles today. But also
> >> > think
> >> > about what has been gained in performance and durability. Even in the
> >> > 1960's a car with 50,000 miles on it was suspect but today we think
> >> > nothing
> >> > of driving vehicles with over 100,000 miles on them. And since I just
> >> > mentioned the '60's, let me make some comments on the so called 'Golden
> >> > Age'
> >> > of the muscle car. In 1968 I spent most of that year selling cars for a
> >> > Chrysler-Plymouth (RIP) dealer. I had a chance to drive, at least once,
> >> > virtually every muscle car of the time. They had power but they were,
> >> > in
> >> > general, pigs to drive. Sure they could do 120 mph on the straight but
> >> > for
> >> > God sake don't try to go around a curve at 60 or even change lanes
> >> > above
> >> > 80.
> >> > The suspensions on virtually all were way, way under engineered for the
> >> > power they had. For those that never had the experience imagine a
> >> > Vanagon
> >> > with worn shocks, factory springs and passenger tires. That's what most
> >> > of
> >> > those Muscle Cars felt like from the factory.
> >> >
> >> > When I was growing up most of the fathers in the neighborhood (good
> >> > upscale
> >> > middle class) were in the 'trades' one way or another. If they weren't
> >> > carpenters or plumbers or such they had been at one time in their lives
> >> > and
> >> > had moved on to a related job. They either used tools for a living or
> >> > their
> >> > customers and clients did. My father was a machinist, all his life. I
> >> > grew
> >> > up in a machine shop, either where he worked or in our basement and
> >> > garage.
> >> > Big lathe, small mill, big drill press, welding equipment, and tools,
> >> > tools,
> >> > tools. The rule was simple, use the right tool for the job. If you
> >> > don't
> >> > have the right tool, make it. Only if you don't have it or can't make
> >> > it do
> >> > you go out and buy it (see references above to Great Depression and
> >> > living
> >> > on a farm) but, my dad hated woodwork. I don't know why but he hated
> >> > doing
> >> > any carpentry. I guess I inherited (or got by osmosis) his mechanical
> >> > skills. If it's mechanical I've never been afraid of it. Especially if
> >> > made of metal. When younger I'd tackle anything, tear it down, fix it,
> >> > and
> >> > put it back together. And that included my cars. But then I reached a
> >> > point
> >> > in later life where I was able to make a trade, my money for a
> >> > mechanics
> >> > time. My time with my family was worth more to me than having those
> >> > dollars
> >> > in my pocket. So I quit doing my own wrenching. And that is the
> >> > decision
> >> > that many in the last couple of generations have made. In the quite
> >> > affluent society that has evolved in the US over the last 50 years
> >> > fewer
> >> > and
> >> > fewer people have fathers that take a tool box to work. And the trade
> >> > of
> >> > dollars for time has become the norm; we go to specialists for most
> >> > things
> >> > today. I still do the basics and have done a lot of mods to my Westy
> >> > but
> >> > any
> >> > real work goes to a mechanic. And yes, I pay close attention to Larry
> >> > Chases Repair Shop Reviews.
> >> >
> >> > So, should the younger generation learn how a motor vehicle works?
> >> > Absolutely. Should they understand the basics of maintenance?
> >> > Absolutely. Should
> >> > they learn to use basic tools? Yes, yes yes. Should they be doing
> >> > engine
> >> > swaps? Now that is another level of involvement, a choice to be made by
> >> > the
> >> > individual. But they should have enough knowledge to understand what is
> >> > involved.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The quote below sums it up for me, from the famous Lazarus Long (though
> >> > we
> >> > should add "Troubleshoot a Vanagon FI System" to the list.)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
> >> > butcher
> >> > a
> >> > hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
> >> > build
> >> > a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
> >> > cooperate,
> >> > act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
> >> > program a
> >> > computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
> >> > Specialization is for insects.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jake
> >> 1984 Vanagon GL
> >> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> >> Crescent Beach, BC
> >> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> >> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>
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