Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 15:42:26 -0700
Reply-To: Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions
In-Reply-To: <ac1f198b0809041433k5231e2b1g30e8ec93db299aa@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
After the lab test, the vehicle goes to a referee for final labeling and
entry into the DMV system. A copy of the lab certificate is required by the
BAR, and the original goes to the DMV.
When it comes to testing, California requires the whole shebang. Think of
it as EPA++, and the lab must be CARB certified.
A lab "may" be able to offer a quantity discount. I used to have a deal
where my 5th test was free, but that was a few years back.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim Akiba
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:33 PM
To: Jeff
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions
Yeah we were talking two different things... so does one of the
inspected vehicles need to ever go to a ref? Or is the label basically
the same thing as the sticker a BAR ref would provide (meaning as long
as it passes tailpipe/rolling road a the next smog check it's fine)
Here's a question then, do you think one could ever swing a deal with
a lab for reduced pricing say if you bought contract testing for 10,
20, 50, or X number vehicles?
The lab near us capable of doing similar testing (for EPA, CS95, CARB)
was around $2k a pop... do they also require shed testing on something
as old as the vanagon? I've heard conflicting reports about it, some
said yes, both hot and cold soaks, but others said no shed testing
required.
Jim Akiba
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing... my point is that any
> engine conversion that meets California emissions standards can be
certified
> as California legal by the test lab.
>
> This is not for a kit, it is a single install in a single vehicle. The
next
> time you do the same conversion, it would have to go to the lab for
testing
> and certification again.
>
> It is basically the same procedure that is performed on every vehicle that
> is imported into California. It doesn't matter what engine is in the
> vehicle, only that it passes the lab test.
>
> If it passes the lab test, it's good to go...
>
> Obviously, this would get expensive, but it is absolutely true. This is
not
> conjecture, it is what we do for a living.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim Akiba
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:37 PM
> To: Jeff
> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
> It's still false. The statement "Any "clean" engine conversion can be
> certified as legal in California" can only be true if it is also the
> case that it is not possible to have a "clean" engine conversion and
> have it declined for certification in CA. Since it is the case that
> having a clean engine conversion *alone* is no guarantee to getting
> the BAR sticker, the statement is false.
>
> I know what you mean, but you can't speak in universals about it,
> that's the crux of the problem.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> It is absolutely true.
>>
>> I think you are confusing my "certified as legal" as being the same as an
>> EO. That's not what I said. My comment was that any clean engine
>> conversion (not a kit) can be tested and labeled as meeting California
>> emissions. This is a "one off" test and is only good for that particular
>> installation.
>>
>> Assumptions always cause confusion....
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of
>> Jim Akiba
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:02 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>> This is not true Jeff, I don't know where you got this impression. The
>> CARB would not even prescribe which of the two types of lab testing
>> needed to be done via the application process. Rose Castro told me
>> personally that if the engine came from an OBDII vehicle they defer to
>> the BAR and nothing can be done through CARB to obtain an EO. They
>> will not even allow you to get to the point of submitting the lab
>> results. Show me an OBDII conversion that is legal in CA and you'll
>> be onto something, but until then nothing has changed.
>>
>> Jim Akiba
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Any "clean" engine conversion can be certified as legal in California...
>> IF
>>> you are willing to pay for the testing. Unfortunately, the testing adds
>>> about $3k to the cost.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of
>>> Don Hanson
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:12 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: John Wessels Glori's Import offering Zetec & Subie engine.
>> Was:
>>> now..ignore the small stuff..?
>>>
>>> I've been sort of following this thread. Since I don't actually live in
>>> California, I probably shouldn't chime in, but I do spend winter months
>>> there and I've been around the Calif. beaurocracy some. It's scary that
>>> other states justify stuff by pointing at California, also.
>>>
>>> I have some friends who have an engine conversion company for mostly
>>> Porsches. They were forced out of California over to Las Vegas to do
>>> business. Renegade Products. They supply conversions for putting Chev
>> V8s
>>> into 944s and 911s. The owner even has an LT-1 Vette motor in his 914.
(
>>> ~500hp in a 2000 lb roller skate!)
>>> They got so frustrated with the CARB, the DMV and all, that they just
>>> packed up and moved to Nevada and now do just fine out there. Even
> though
>>> the conversions they sold tested much cleaner than the 80's-era turbo
>>> Porsche motors they were replacing, they were not 'allowed' by Cali.. I
>>> know many of their customers have their vehicles now registered in
> Nevada,
>>> also. ...
>>>
>>
>>
>
h
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