Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:28:43 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions
In-Reply-To: <501dc8150809050809u432c8278g84dc117c39ca9b65@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It means there is no "easy" way unless you already live in an
emissions zone III county in CA.
It is possible, but it adds extra legwork and cost.
What Jeff has brought up is another possibility, and perhaps helps
ensure that you get a sticker from a BAR ref(the other option next to
the zone III loophole) but it adds several thousand to the pricetag.
So there are basically three options for CA for non-EO'd
conversions(which is everything but the KEP ej22 setup):
1) register the van in a zone III area, inspect with original engine
then never again for the life of the vehicle, if ever sold the van
would have to be sold out of state(not a bad idea anyhow since there
are plenty of rust belt guys looking for CA vans)
2) BAR ref, take it to the ref and attempt to get a sticker. No
guarantees, but we will know more about chances once we have a few
people go through the process, but that won't happen until after we
release the v2 retail version of the conversion late fall.
3) Lab emissions testing followed by #2, which according to Jeff
should allow you the sticker in a more reliable way(correct me if this
is wrong jeff)
That's kind of a cheat sheet of CA currently.
Jim Akiba
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Donna Skarloken <dskarloken@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm kind of lost here - my husband is really interested in the Zetec but we
> live in California. Does this mean we cannot do the Zetec? We have an 87
> Syncro.
>
> On 9/4/08, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> After the lab test, the vehicle goes to a referee for final labeling and
>> entry into the DMV system. A copy of the lab certificate is required by
>> the
>> BAR, and the original goes to the DMV.
>>
>> When it comes to testing, California requires the whole shebang. Think of
>> it as EPA++, and the lab must be CARB certified.
>>
>> A lab "may" be able to offer a quantity discount. I used to have a deal
>> where my 5th test was free, but that was a few years back.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim Akiba
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:33 PM
>> To: Jeff
>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>> Yeah we were talking two different things... so does one of the
>> inspected vehicles need to ever go to a ref? Or is the label basically
>> the same thing as the sticker a BAR ref would provide (meaning as long
>> as it passes tailpipe/rolling road a the next smog check it's fine)
>>
>> Here's a question then, do you think one could ever swing a deal with
>> a lab for reduced pricing say if you bought contract testing for 10,
>> 20, 50, or X number vehicles?
>>
>> The lab near us capable of doing similar testing (for EPA, CS95, CARB)
>> was around $2k a pop... do they also require shed testing on something
>> as old as the vanagon? I've heard conflicting reports about it, some
>> said yes, both hot and cold soaks, but others said no shed testing
>> required.
>>
>> Jim Akiba
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing... my point is that any
>> > engine conversion that meets California emissions standards can be
>> certified
>> > as California legal by the test lab.
>> >
>> > This is not for a kit, it is a single install in a single vehicle. The
>> next
>> > time you do the same conversion, it would have to go to the lab for
>> testing
>> > and certification again.
>> >
>> > It is basically the same procedure that is performed on every vehicle
>> that
>> > is imported into California. It doesn't matter what engine is in the
>> > vehicle, only that it passes the lab test.
>> >
>> > If it passes the lab test, it's good to go...
>> >
>> > Obviously, this would get expensive, but it is absolutely true. This is
>> not
>> > conjecture, it is what we do for a living.
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>> Akiba
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:37 PM
>> > To: Jeff
>> > Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> > Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> > Conversions
>> >
>> > It's still false. The statement "Any "clean" engine conversion can be
>> > certified as legal in California" can only be true if it is also the
>> > case that it is not possible to have a "clean" engine conversion and
>> > have it declined for certification in CA. Since it is the case that
>> > having a clean engine conversion *alone* is no guarantee to getting
>> > the BAR sticker, the statement is false.
>> >
>> > I know what you mean, but you can't speak in universals about it,
>> > that's the crux of the problem.
>> >
>> > Jim Akiba
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Jim,
>> >>
>> >> It is absolutely true.
>> >>
>> >> I think you are confusing my "certified as legal" as being the same as
>> an
>> >> EO. That's not what I said. My comment was that any clean engine
>> >> conversion (not a kit) can be tested and labeled as meeting California
>> >> emissions. This is a "one off" test and is only good for that
>> particular
>> >> installation.
>> >>
>> >> Assumptions always cause confusion....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jeff
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> >> Jim Akiba
>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:02 AM
>> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> >> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> >> Conversions
>> >>
>> >> This is not true Jeff, I don't know where you got this impression. The
>> >> CARB would not even prescribe which of the two types of lab testing
>> >> needed to be done via the application process. Rose Castro told me
>> >> personally that if the engine came from an OBDII vehicle they defer to
>> >> the BAR and nothing can be done through CARB to obtain an EO. They
>> >> will not even allow you to get to the point of submitting the lab
>> >> results. Show me an OBDII conversion that is legal in CA and you'll
>> >> be onto something, but until then nothing has changed.
>> >>
>> >> Jim Akiba
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Any "clean" engine conversion can be certified as legal in
>> California...
>> >> IF
>> >>> you are willing to pay for the testing. Unfortunately, the testing
>> adds
>> >>> about $3k to the cost.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Jeff
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf
>> > Of
>> >>> Don Hanson
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:12 AM
>> >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> >>> Subject: Re: John Wessels Glori's Import offering Zetec & Subie engine.
>> >> Was:
>> >>> now..ignore the small stuff..?
>> >>>
>> >>> I've been sort of following this thread. Since I don't actually live
>> in
>> >>> California, I probably shouldn't chime in, but I do spend winter months
>> >>> there and I've been around the Calif. beaurocracy some. It's scary
>> that
>> >>> other states justify stuff by pointing at California, also.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have some friends who have an engine conversion company for mostly
>> >>> Porsches. They were forced out of California over to Las Vegas to do
>> >>> business. Renegade Products. They supply conversions for putting Chev
>> >> V8s
>> >>> into 944s and 911s. The owner even has an LT-1 Vette motor in his 914.
>> (
>> >>> ~500hp in a 2000 lb roller skate!)
>> >>> They got so frustrated with the CARB, the DMV and all, that they just
>> >>> packed up and moved to Nevada and now do just fine out there. Even
>> > though
>> >>> the conversions they sold tested much cleaner than the 80's-era turbo
>> >>> Porsche motors they were replacing, they were not 'allowed' by
>> Cali.. I
>> >>> know many of their customers have their vehicles now registered in
>> > Nevada,
>> >>> also. ...
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> h
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Donna
>
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