Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:04:27 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: help me understand US emissions control strategy.(NVC)
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Hi John, I hear ya.
It's difficult to imagine that humans will actually do a serious and 'big'
turn around from our current path all right.
Regardless of which candidate gets elected to president.........it seem easy
to envision only token change.
Humans, being quite dumb creatures actually...........
won't believe a flood is imminent until the waters are actually rising
beyond what can be coped with , most of them it seems anyway.
I *really* hope it doesn't work out this way .............but it's easy to
think humans might need to get to 'too late' to begin really give up what we
like, or how we live.
Perhaps the oil will run out, or economic collapse will stop the insane
amount of fuels being burnt everywhere ..............
or something like that.
I have been saying this for years : Humans think making products like TV's
and cars, and then spreading them around the planet puts food on the table.
It really does not. Growing healthy food and distributing it puts food on
the table...........not jobs at Chnamart with cheap chinese stuff.
That tears up the planet, the opposite of what we want. When do you think
the culture will wake up, if ever ?
glad I'm not 10 years old !
sorry to go on. I was pleased to read that we sold 'only' 15 million cars in
North America in one year, down 1.2 million from 2007.
And also that US manufactures only supplied 47 % of those ..........a record
low proportion.
If I was King..............we'd be targeting fewer cars produced every year,
and we'd be putting all the extra available manpower and energy into
environmental clean-up. And until the world truly learns to think
globally.............let's just say there might be a really big adjustment
in the future for humans. The current system of many countries doing
whatever they want, with no one to answer to really............that can't go
on forever.
We're all in the same boat here, but it's not well recognized.
Meanwhile they make more evolved and advanced weapons all the time ! Hot
dog. ............
"How to wipe out a supposedly intelligent species in 20 easy centuries"
..........now showing at theaters in other galaxies.
( one of my dreams is they'll have to give up war solely due to the
destruction it causes to our precious planet. It would sure help to go back
to spears and arrows. That's not so destructive to the planet, and it helps
keep population growth down., They can make the arrows out of recycled
petroleum products. A win-win all around : Kill your fellow humans without
hurting the planet - Yea ! progress !! ) .
It's BIZARRE......if you wanted to write the most bizarre Hollywood movie
plot for the insanity that goes on, you could not possibly come up with
something more bizarre, including all the characters involved, than what is
happening. It's like a novel being played out.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: help me understand US emissions control strategy.(NVC)
> Scott,
>
> The emissions and global warming thing is a major sore point with me. I
> lived in Alaska for 30 years and witnessed the destruction of the
> glaciers by the global warming. You betcha it's for real. In 1970 the
> Black Rapids Glacier up near Fairbanks was growing by feet per day and
> the authorities were afraid the glacier was going to cut off a major
> highway up there.Turned out they didn't have to worry as Global Warming
> was just around the corner and would take care of the problem. I have
> spectacular aerial photos of glaciers though out Alaska that I took over
> the years, and many of those glaciers are gone or they have shrunken to
> dirty remembrance of their former selves. Sadly, the Ice Worm is now a
> threatened species with the demise of the glaciers. Of course no one
> talks of him. Being so small, and making his living in the ice, he is
> forgotten.
>
> There are a few problems: Our numbers continue to increase and
> consumerism increases with it. And at the same time emmissions of every
> sort continue to increase. Unless there is a sea change, the planet is
> in for a catastrophe likened only to the extinction of the dinosaurs.
> It is inevitable. I'm beginning to think that mankind is no more capable
> of making that sea change than a leopard is capable of changing his own
> spots.
>
> When I was in high school, taking HS biology, in an experiment Petri
> dishes with growth media were inoculated with bacteria. Like the finite
> world we live in, so lived the bacteria in their environment in the
> Petri dish. As the bacterial colony grew and the total number of
> bacteria increased, so did the consumption rate of the food in the dish
> - and so did the toxins of metabolism. In a short time the bacteria had
> grown to the physical limits of the Petri dish - ie, spread around the
> world, - and at the same time, the toxins were building up so in the
> middle that death was beginning to catch up with the growth. When the
> bacteria reached the physical limits of the dish (our finite space), the
> food was used up and the metabolic toxins over took the colony and the
> whole thing collapsed and they all died. Our world is no different. We
> are not at that point yet, but it appears that we are no more capable of
> turning our course than those bacteria were, and therefore this planet
> as we know it is doomed. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in ten years or
> even fifty, but unless there is a fundamental change in people world
> wide, the planet and all that live here are doomed to some kind of
> absolutely awful future.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> well to the modern dysfunctional world Roger.
>> Ayn Rand indeed !
>>
>> re global warming -
>> I went to Stewart BC and Hyder Alaska in about 1989. Outside Hyder you
>> can
>> drive up mining roads and look down on the Salmon Glacier , which used to
>> come down a huge valley, and split left and right below - the kind of
>> view
>> you normally only get from an aircraft or serious mountaineering in
>> Alaska
>> or the BC Coast Mountains and glaciated areas. Just awesome. I still
>> have
>> pictures.
>> On the branch of the glacier going toward my right
>> ..................there
>> was a giant hanging glacier that flowed steeply down onto the huge
>> glacier
>> going to the right ..........with giant ''splash' of piled up ice ,
>> seemed
>> to be hundreds of feet high.
>> In about 1995 I went back there in my turbo diesel vanagon ..........
>> the entire right side glacier was gone ............a few hundred feet
>> thick
>> of ice gone. Just bare dirt, ugly bare dirt, remained.
>> You can not tell me global warming isn't occurring. It's obvious.
>> Read about the Portage Glacier south of Anchorage AK..........south of
>> Girdwood ........it's a popular tourist spot. I first went there on the
>> Green Tortoise in 1980 The lake in front of the glacier front , and
>> it was
>> miles to the glacier too, was full of icebergs. They are all melted
>> now.
>> There's endless documentation about warmer temps and faster rising temps
>> than at any time ever before, and for those who think it might just be a
>> regular cycle thing ............there has never been this many people
>> burning this much stuff at any time, or anything near it, in the
>> history of
>> the planet that we know of. It's really happening.
>>
>> always nice to read your notes !
>> Scott
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Whittaker" <rogerwhitt1@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: help me understand US emissions control strategy.(NVC)
>>
>>
>>> dear friday ranters
>>>
>>> canadian speaking here - one who thinks there is very little science
>>> and a
>>> lot of hyperbole in the global warming political movement - having
>>> stated
>>> where part of my foot print is -
>>>
>>> and regarding the touted fuel efficiency of vehicles sold else where -
>>> the else where being a place where driving might be limited to dates
>>> that
>>> match your licence number - -
>>> protectionist legislation never works over the long term - ..
>>> and what may look like an aside is actually indicative of why things
>>> are s
>>> out of control --
>>> last month we sent a payment in the form of a bank draft from canada in
>>> american dollars to a credit card company owned and operated by HSBC
>>> (the
>>> h
>>> stands for hong kong)
>>> the instrument was returned to the issuing bank stamped as uncashable
>>> ???
>>> with out certification ...??? due to the fact that HSBC lacks the
>>> infrustructure to accept funds drawn on forgien banks ...
>>> we call .. customer service located in south east asia tells us that the
>>> instrument is not even recognized as having been processed ... we ask to
>>> speak to supervisor ... get a guy who is in Ponoma California .. first
>>> thing
>>> he tells me is that the instrument is in canadian $$ i tell him that
>>> clearly
>>> stated in three different places is the fact that it is in american
>>> $$ --
>>> he
>>> tells me to avoid future occurance i should send the item to -and he
>>> starts
>>> to give me an address -
>>> as i write it down i notice the address is the same on at the top of the
>>> returned item letter -
>>> i say hey wait a minute you are telling me to send this back to where
>>> this
>>> letter came from -
>>> yes he says -... arrgggg -- then he tells me that a machine processed
>>> the
>>> item and refused it last time -...
>>> but if i send it to Pomona address a real person will open it -
>>> i see says i ...
>>> -- it is no wonder the banking system is coming apart at the seems -
>>> all we need is one or two experainces like this where the guy on the
>>> "service end " is tellign the customer that the error is made by the
>>> customer --...
>>> systems are designed to benifit the individual at the top of the pyramid
>>> ...
>>> never the individual -
>>> read Anthem by Ayn Rand
>>> message out
>>> return to regualr earth broad cast
>>> :)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson@gorge.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I read on MSN's homepage news about Ford having built a 65mpg diesel
>>>> Fiesta
>>>> and currently selling it everywhere except the USA. Their guy states
>>>> that
>>>> the US is so anti-diesel that they can't sell those fuel efficient
>>>> vehicles
>>>> here. Yet I hear the US Gov. is considering a 'bail-out' to Ford Motor
>>>> Company because they aren't selling the P.O.S. trucks and big vehicles
>>>> they
>>>> do market here in the US.
>>>> Can someone 'splain why it's more "green" to allow a 'regulatory
>>>> exemption' to SUVs for fuel efficiency standards and a tax break to buy
>>>> them
>>>> and then 'over-regulate' diesel vehicles? Yuh think a 10mpg Humvee
>>>> or a
>>>> 9
>>>> liter Triton V-10 pickup is more "green" or less polluting than a
>>>> diesel
>>>> Fiesta getting 65-frikken miles per gallon? How come our
>>>> automakers can
>>>> sell pickup trucks with the same motor you find in long haul tractor
>>>> trailer
>>>> trucks (Cummins, Navistar, Allison, etc.) so that Mrs. Rancher can
>>>> drive
>>>> down to Wal Mart for a Chinese plastic bucket, or Mr. Macho can run
>>>> round
>>>> the freeways all week looking cool in his 'trash can masher' (Wheels
>>>> and
>>>> tires so big he can straddle the yellow line and get the cans on both
>>>> curbs)
>>>> and yet we aren't allowed to convert our Vanagons to TD power in many
>>>> states?
>>>>
>>>> These 'allowed vehicles" use up six times as many barrels of oil
>>>> burned
>>>> up
>>>> per mile traveled, and six times as much fossil fuel by-product is
>>>> spewed
>>>> into the atmosphere. It's ok for the gas guzzler to be here, but
>>>> not the
>>>> little diesel car? (according to the corporate whores who write our US
>>>> vehicle emission standards).
>>>>
>>>> 70% of the ROW vehicles on the roads are diesel powered (because it's
>>>> more
>>>> fuel-efficient)...What's with these creeps making the rules here in the
>>>> USA?
>>>> They stupid? They greedy? They think we (the population) here have an
>>>> unlimited supply of Vaseline and will just stay bent over, taking it
>>>> for
>>>> ever?
>>>> Rant over..Back to your regular political Palin-tology news now
>>>> (for us
>>>> here in the US.)
>>>> Don Hanson
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> roger w
>>> There are two kinds of jobs in the world:
>>> Picking up garbage and telling people things.
>>> Successful people do both, with the same good attitude. (riw)
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Explore printed work at: http://www.prliving.ca/
>>> View the growing list of video work at:
>>> http://revver.com/find/video/?query=LastonLastof&search_on=owners
>>> and ... older work at
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7135104650374818257
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3259745150182742364
>>
>>
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