Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:45:38 -0800
Reply-To: Don Hanson <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Don Hanson <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
Subject: Re: Regarding alignment..
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Scott and list.
You mean 'caster' when you turn the wheels and measure? You wrote camber.
If you measure to the tires, you are introducing another possible
variable..the round of the sidewall may make it difficult to get it
accurate. Using the rim only eliminates that, though you may have to add
some spacer blocks so that your alignment board clears the tire..Actual
racetrack tools (these are fancy aluminum 'boards' with some screw in
spacers to do what the blocks do) cost about $100 bucks..
For camber, I used a 'smart level', available at Home Despot or other
builders supply stores. relatively inexpensive.. This is a digital read out
level that can be read in tenths of a degree. Again, I taped some blocks
onto the level in order to clear the tires and only contact the rim.. Again,
racer supply stores make a fancy version of this McGuiver tool, they call
theirs a "Smart-Camber" tool and charge a couple of hundred...same level,
just put into a slick little jig with some screw adjustments rather than
wooden blocks.
With my race car, I did so many suspension changes constantly for changing
tracks and conditions that I had each component 'wired-out' as to how many
"turns" on the adjuster did how much change to the vehicle's alignment...So
I could come in and just take a couple of turns on the coil over shocks and
lower the car by X-amount, or a turn or two on the tie rod for some more or
less toe, or a few millimeters adjustment on a swaybar for more or less
under or oversteer.
Scott's 'incremental' adjustment is best...do a small change then measure
again after moving the van around or driving it some. You do need a fairly
smooth surface to work on.
I found for toe settings...1/4" total (the difference being 1/4" longer
measurement at the rear of the wheels) was about right as a starting point
and many other cars seemed to use that measurement, too.
Don Hanson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
To: "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET>; <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Regarding alignment..
> Very good Don,
> OK,...........here is my quite effective, believe it or not, way to check
> toe, camber, and castor.
>
> On the toe in/toe out.......your method amplifies the measurement, and is
> thus more accurate, but here's mine .......................
> What I do is ...........and yes, the suspension always has to be settled.
If
> it was jacked up, need to move it several van lengths to get the
suspension
> settled again.
> When I'm really picky, I'll drive and then stop the van using only the
> parking brake, so the front brakes don't pull on the front wheels at all
> during stopping.
> These days I don't bother to do that......just stop it gently. Always
> adjust tire pressure too of course !
>
> I use two yard sticks. I get under there and measure at close to the 9
> o'clock/3 o'clock position on the wheel or tire at the rear .
> I find that that's usually one yard plus 18 3/4 inches............I
overlap
> the two yard sticks so it's easy to read that inch number.
> Then I measure in the front ..............if I had 18 3/4 inches in the
> rear.......
> I'd like to see about 1/16th to 1/8 inch less in the front. Just a tiny
bit
> of toe-in.
> On some cars you can't measure at the 3 o'clock position on the tire or
the
> wheel, due to suspension parts in the way.
> I just measure as high up as I can get.
> I'll often make a small change, then wait until I drive it next time, and
> measure it again.
>
> ( I won't go into it right here, < well, I guess I did > but if the
> steering wheel is not quite centered........you can figure out which tie
rod
> to make longer or shorter to bring it towards exactly centered. I do it
> like this : First I measure and say it's toed-out. and the steering wheel
is
> off center to the left. I think like this ............I hold my hands out
> exaggerating toe-out ..............and remembering that the steering is in
> the front of the front wheels..............I think.........ok, if I
shorten
> the right tie rod - move your hands so both are pointing
> left............then when the steering, pulls naturally to straight
ahead,
> it will pull the wheel to the right, the direction I want it to go. . )
>
> next ......Camber. <snipped>
> next.............camber .......we can at least check it for being the same
> side to side. Turn the wheel full left, and measure camber with the level
> of both wheels.
You mean caster here? Caster is the "shopping cart" component of
steering...where the wheel hits the ground is behind where the wheels pivot,
just like the front wheels of a shopping cart...More caster equals more
effort turning and better straight ahead, plus more 'self-straightening'
when you release the steering wheel after a turn..I never mess with caster
much..
> What you'll find is that at full left lock, the left wheel leans way, way
> out, like two inches. Even 2 1/2 inches. Note what that measurement is.
> Now go to the other side, and you'll see that the right wheel only leans
in
> a little..........maybe 1/4 of an inch.
> Now........turn full right............and do the same thing.
> That's what you should find............and about equal left to
> right..........on a tight turn, the inner wheel leans way out, about 2
> inches top leaning out, and the outer wheel for that turn leans in a small
> amount. And both sides should be pretty equal.
>
> You do those three things carefully.............and you'll be quite close
> ........even better than in the ball park.
> Normally, toe is the only adjustment you want to go messing with a lot.
> Always be careful with changing camber or castor, as they affect each
other
> back and forth, and toe.
>
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