Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:57:38 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Boston Bob's flywheel video
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Steven,
did they take it back apart ?
Sounds to me, if it is for sure leaking engine oil from the bell housing area..........no real progress will be made until it's taken back apart for a thorough and careful inspection.
I would be asking them to do that.............if it's leaking from the bell housing area, where they just worked..........
heck...........what would the owner of that shop do if it was his van, or his wife's, or mother's van ????
He'd take it back apart to see what is what.
It's not clear to me if they've taken it back apart or not yet.
If not, and if there really is an oil leak from the just worked on clutch and bell housing area............it seems that they're stalling or putting you off, and trying to avoid the inevitable............something is not right in there.
What do they exactly say, these two times you've taken the van back to them ????
What's their attitude, and what 'exactly' do they say. They must have some explanation.
Seems they would have to say some form of :
- it's not really leaking.
- it's something else and not part of our work
- it did it before our work and we're not responsible for it,
etc. etc.
what exactly are they telling you ?
how many miles on this engine ?
Did they check the end play of the crankshaft, ala Bob's recently posted video ?
( One minor thing I'd change in that video is to lube the pilot bearing felt dust seal - on anything that turns and seals out fluid, it has to be pre-lubed a little. I think I read somewhere to soak those felt seals in oil, which is what I do. Not that this has anything to do with your problem. )
if it's engine oil, and it's rear main seal...........things like crankshaft end-play pop into my mind, seal being in too deep, or not deep enough. Also.............
the rear main seal is not the only thing that can leak there. The flywheel mounting bolts are leak-points if they are not sealed with lock-tite, and there's an o-ring 'inside' the flywheel, where the flywheel bolts to the crankshaft.
And there is the rare crack in the engine case, though I've never seen that on a waterboxer - that's a famous air-cooled thing than can happen.
And if you're sure it's not gear oil.............then it's engine oil of course.
And I'm really curious what they say exactly............and if they've taken it back apart or not.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Johnson
To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Boston Bob's flywheel video
Hi Scott,
Thanks for your generous reply. The thing is, I've already returned the van twice for the same known oil leak
from the engine seal problem. They know it's leaking from there. The confirmed it twice by checking before
proceeding. I know it's there because there is no where else for it to come from. Not the top side. No leaks
there. I checked. And it's certainly not the transmission because I know what that smells like. So basically
they've made 3 attempts to fix this same problem and have not fixed the problem. I really don't want to have
to keep going back just so I can get my van home with the same leak. And I don't want further damage from
a crappy job. That is why I posted to the list in the first place....
Steven
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
hi Stevan,
not quite enough information yet.
You say it's an oil leak in that area, and the first thing to deteremine is if it's engine oil or a transmission oil leak.
Here's what I do with my customers in a case like this. ( well, first I'm super careful during the clutch job to watch out for any unusual or 'new/unkown previously' things that could make the job come out not right. I don't do 'slam dunk' repair at all. To me it's not putting in a new clutch and rear main seal, it's fussing over the entire area and everything related to ensure a successful job )
and..............when there is a problem. I just say, 'let me see the van' ..............and if it is say leaking in the clutch area after a good clutch and rear main seal job, what I do then is treat it just like it was my own van............I take it back apart and see what's going on. If I made a mistake.............then I fix it and you get my apologies for your inconveninece...........and even an offer for some free service in the future , something like that.
If it's 'something new' ...............like say it was a trans input shaft seal that's now leaking ...............I'll comunicate with the customer when I get it apart and make some agreement that's fair.
It will likely fall into one of 3 areas :
It was just a mistake or poorly done work in the first place.
2. It was something that was there all along, but didn't get noitced and addressed when doing the job in the first place.
3. It's something that is by coincidence a 'new issue' .
I personally figure that when someone pays for good work...............and spends good money.....................that buys them consideration for quite a while. I do not do '90 days warranty' kind of warranties. That basically says that on day 91 thew shop says 'we did our 90 days, we have no repsonsibility now."
( I just spend almost 2 grand on a computer recently.........and had issues about 3. and 1/.2 months later............the shop's owner's attitude was 'we did our 90 days , not our problem'.........well of course that is very agravting to me sinice I just spent the big bucks with them in good faith that I'd be on the right track and they'd be there, at least somewhat.........for a while. Not 2 years, later, but 3 1/2 months later - darn right they should AT LEAST be willing to take a look at it. I got what I needed out of them, but I had to straighten them out a bit. - that owner is really weak on what true 'customer service and carring is )
anyway.............on clutches or anything in the bell housing area.........
it always comes down to, in a black or white way ...........no progress will be made until the engine and transmission are separated for a careful inspection.
At the least they should offer to do that ............and likely something isn't right in there............and if it's 100 % their goof.......then of course they should take care of it.
If it's 'something new' or 'something more'............then they should do something very fair, and both parties invest a little more time and dollars into making it right.
If they flat missed something obvious they should have caught while in there............then they 'owe you' for having to do that work over, perpaps the new part/s would be on you, but not the whole labor for the job.
sorry it got so long !
hope it works out. For sure, find out if it's engine oil or transmission oil.
and............it can be more than just a seal is bad or poorly installed - it can be related to worn engine, etc.
good luck ! Hope what I wrote makes half sense and is followable at least mostly !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson" <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Boston Bob's flywheel video
Hi all,
Well, I've have an issue here with an oil leak between my transmission and
engine.
I already know it's coming from a seal leak. This all started when I took
my '91 Westy
into Stephan's Auto Haus here in Sacramento where I had the Clutch
replaced. Before
this work was done my Westy had absolutely no oil leaks what-so-ever. Since
this work
was done, it has leaked a small amount after every drive. I've taken it
back to Stephan's
to remedy this twice! This is not a convenient trip for me as it is 30
miles out of my
way and takes a huge chunk out of my day. The only thing positive about it
is that it
is still under warranty. But if it doesn't get fixed, what good is that?
Then I see this
video and I'm really getting nervous about a job that may be causing damage
to my
van.
So oh wise and might list, what do you think I should do next? I'm really
dissappointed
with Stephan's at this point.
Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Steven
'91 Westy
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Jake de Villiers <
crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yup, its a goodie. I wish it had been around when I changed motors in
> Dixie.
>
> I talked to Bob when I swapped over the flywheel from Dixie's old motor
to
> the replacement motor, which came from an automatic van. I didn't know
> about the endplay shims etc and just about sh*t myself when I heard > that
I
> missed an important step!
>
> Bob said "Is it running well? You must have gotten lucky. It happens.
> Don't worry about it." :-)
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 5:22 PM, The Westy man <thewestyman@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure if any of you looked at this video with Bob yet.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bob Donalds" <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:20 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Clutch replacement Hints
> >>
> >>
> >> I also recommend the OEM seal
> >>>
> >>> I only found out after making my Flywheel seal video that it had a
> larger
> >>> spring and
> >>> is designed to accommodate the radius at the flywheel without being
> >>> counter
> >>> sunk as it is has 12 MM dept
> >>>
> >>> for your viewing pleasure
> >>>
> >>>
>
http://www.bostig.com/files/bostonbob&bostig-proper_wbxflywheel_install.wmv
> >>>
> >>> Bob Donalds
> >>> Boston Engine
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