Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:30:05 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: problems with "ping" noise regardless of timing
In-Reply-To: <005e01c94cd3$da1db440$6502a8c0@PC326916935110>
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Very BAD News - that puffing air and smoke from the crank case.
Something internally is dying. When my 88 GL with the 2.1L WBX did that
- shortly thereafter it burned a piston and wrecked the engine.I'm not
familiar with the Air-cooled WBX engines - so it is possible some part
of some AC system is malfunctioning - but an engine is and engine, and
air being pumpled through a crancase is not a good sign -
The .21L WNX has lifter issues, but its more a clater than a clank.- or
knock. Clanks or knocks plus pinging ( detonation) is s bad sign -
bearings, maybe. and the constant pinging indicates a hot spot in the
cylinder somewhere - bad valve, hard carbon spot in the heat or
cylinder, burnt spot on the piston. In my experience, these symptoms
indicate approaching engine failure. You DO NOT want to drive this rig
to the point of throwing a rod - or worse- breaking the crank.
Ironically, sometimes, compression tess don't tell the whole tale. That,
combined with a crankshaft run-out check with a dial-indicator will get
you closer to a definitive diagnosis.
One other thing to consider is that the carburetor is not feeding fuel
correctly. It may be running your engine lean all the time, and anytime
you have the pedal to the metal it goes leaner and sets off the pinging.
In that scenario even a slight load could trigger the pinging - which is
of course detonation - or by definition - uncontrolled fuel burn - which
in turn damages the engine with hot spots.
Best of success in hunting the problem and correcting it.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Frank Schultz wrote:
> Hello All - I have been wrestling with this for 4 days:
>
> 82 Westy
> 2.0 aircooled
> Weber 2 bbl Progressive (yeah, I know)
> SVDA
>
> Got my Westy back from having my mechanic do a rear brake job on my westy.
> He also set the timing (he replaced points and condenser when I first bought
> the car but did not time the engine (first strike). The PO had the timing at
> a total advance of 60 BTDC. I can't believe my mechanic did not check the
> timing or valves when I brought it in to them initially to check out.
>
> It ran great except for a pinging noise which I thought was detonation from
> the timing being to advanced (42 degrees total including dist. vac. advance)
>
>
> I retarded the timing to 7.0 then 5 BTDC, then 0 and the ping did not go
> away. The ping is not steady would not happen during idle, but would happen
> on acceleration and deceleration. It was not a steady ping but random.
>
> Did compression test (cold) later realized that I should do it warm- had
> 1=85
> 2-85
> 3-100
> 4-100
>
> So I went back to square one and set the dwell to 48, retimed and adjusted
> the carb - same pinging.
>
> Ran 1/2 bottle of seafoam through the carb, ran worse - number 2 cylinder
> was not affected idle when disconnected spark.
>
> Air is pumping out of the crankcase breather hose
>
> Ping still there....
>
> did my first valve adjustment on cylinder 1 and 2. Wiped off spark plugs
> (they were black (dry black) from the seafoam I think),
>
> The intake valve on # 2 took twice as many turns (5) to get clearance as the
> other valves. The car was cool - not cold and made two complete turns after
> contact
>
> The balance test on #2 cylinder is much better (same difference as other
> cylinders when spark is taken away).
> Ran the car - the lifters were clanking (well something was that sounded
> like lifter noise I have had in the past). So drove it around to get rid of
> it...after what had been about 20 minutes (usually goes away in about 5-8
> min.) it had not quieted down so I parked it and took a look.
>
> The timing was showing 0 (TDC), which was about 7.5-8 yesterday. Retimed to
> 7.5 btdc and 30 btdc at 3000 rpm without carb vacuum - and took it back out.
> it was hesitating at low RPMs and not running great, but running - another 8
> minutes and the noise was still there - besides some hesitation in low RPMS
> ran pretty well.
>
> My big concerns are:
> 1. I am still getting some pinging, but not as much as before (hard to tell
> with clanking going on).
>
> 2. I am getting air pumping (pulsing) out of the crankcase breather hose and
> the air is a bit dirty with a little smoke.
> 3. The clanking has not gone away after adjusting valves
>
> Tomorrow I will:
> Confirm TDC with static timing light
> readjust the valves (cold) - both sides
> retune
> compression test (Warm).
>
> Any ideas or suggestions out there?
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions and input.
>
> Best regards,
> Frank
>
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