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Date:         Wed, 3 Dec 2008 21:57:28 +0000
Reply-To:     Richard Golen <rgolen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Richard Golen <rgolen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Making of a Vanagon - Now New T3
Comments: To: scottdaniel@turbovans.com
In-Reply-To:  <088e01c9558f$139adbd0$6701a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

In the mid 1990s Porsche was loosing money because of high labor costs. I was at the factory in January 1996 and the place was full of Japanese engineers at almost every production station watching, taking pictures, writing notes, etc. Two years later, the assembly line was revamped. Yes, the 911 is high priced, but Porsche had very little profit margin. Now that Porsche has its economic house in order, I find it so ironic that they are now in a position to by a majority stake in VWAG.

I agree with not having to have 500 different models of crap being sold. However, as Vanagon and VW enthusiasts we are a relative minority of car buyers. Look at what has been selling over the past decade....mini vans, SUVs, Pick up trucks, Hummers, etc. Even the Japanese, Koreans and Germans got into the SUV game because that is what sells. Detroit and the rest of the world pushed them on us because the profit margins on these vehicles are higher than the profit margins on most small (at least the big 3) cars.

Over the past few days I've noticed figures of $35K to $50K battered around for a "new" T3. Assuming one picked up a restorable T3 for $5k, $30K+ would sure as pay for the restoration of one hell of a "new" T3. BTW, the T5 Camper version is approximately $55K Euros. Also, there are a number of Sprinter camper conversions floating around for $45K or more. In some ways the Sprinter is more akin to the "new" T3 that we speak of. Diesel power and economy, etc.

Speaking of diesel power, I saw a picture of a T3 with its engine compartment stuffed full with an AUDI V6 TDI...now THAT would be a neat conversion!

Ric

> From: scottdaniel@turbovans.com > To: rgolen@HOTMAIL.COM; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Re: Making of a Vanagon - Now New T3 > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:35:30 -0800 > > re > "Bottom line, it would be nice to have a new,updated Vanagon, however a > 1970s design does not lend itself to the demands of modern production, etc. > " > > It wouldn't be a 70's design anyway, and all the current practices employed > to keep manufacturing costs in line could still be employed, quite easily. > > I assume you wouldn't say that about Porsche if you didn't think it was > true - I've not heard that about Porsche. They do quite well financially > from what I read. And their cars are not cheap either ! > .........particularly the 911's. > > A modern transporter could be assembled in Mexico for the north American > market, just like New Beetles are, and some Jettas. > Even the wiring harness for a 90's Subaru legacy says 'hecho in Mexico' on > it. > > more........... > just think of what excellent cars we could have if humans didn't make 500 > different models of cars ........if they didn't overproduce more than will > sell easily. > Sure would love to see the major car manufactures promote modesty and > humility, rather than flash and hugeness as automotive and truck virtues. > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Golen" <rgolen@HOTMAIL.COM> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 6:40 PM > Subject: Re: Making of a Vanagon - Now New T3 > > > It would be great to have a new Vanagon, however it boils down to simple > economics. Ten years ago I managed to get a VIP tour of the Type II assembly > plant in Hannover where they were producing the T4. My guide had mentioned > that the number of man-hours that went into producing the T4 were 40% of > those used for the T3,and that the T3 was still being produced (1998) in > South Africa because the labor costs there were low enough to make it > feasible. > > VW, as well as most car manufacturers design and build their cars to utilize > the minimum of man-hours. For example the Golf II used 35 man-hours of > labor. The succeeding Golf III used 18 man-hours. Now, rather than building > whole cars (the original Beetle in the 1950s was 90% VW content), companies > now assemble groups of sub-assemblies. The total content of VW made parts in > the Golf V is down to 38%. The rest of the Golf is assembled from parts > (seats, dash/control assemblies, etc) from sub-contractors that are located > no more than 20 miles from the Wolfsburg plant. All parts arriving within 45 > minutes of then they are needed. > > Porsche, which was once famous for its hand assembly of cars, almost went > out of business in the mid nineties because they "built great cars at a > loss". They hired consultants from Toyota and Nissan in 1997 and within > three years cut the number of man-hours in the 911 by 60%. > > Bottom line, it would be nice to have a new,updated Vanagon, however a 1970s > design does not lend itself to the demands of modern production, etc. > > > Ric > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:32:02 -0800 > > From: regnsuzanne@YAHOO.COM > > Subject: Re: Making of a Vanagon - Now New T3 > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > I've brought the idea to the list before, that is to create a website > > dedicated to convincing VW to re-open the T3 assembly line, albeit with > > updated electronics and power train. > > > > Folks voiced their skepticism with objections that Andrew has debunked > > below, i.e. that the vehicle COULD be brought up to current USA & Canadian > > safety standards. > > > > I would love to have a new T3 TDI Syncro.......I think that a lot of > > people would...... > > > > Anthony > > '89 Syncro GL (Hidalgo) > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Andrew Grebneff <goose1047@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > > From: Andrew Grebneff <goose1047@GMAIL.COM> > > Subject: Re: video: Making of a Vanagon > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:23 PM > > > > >> You're not forgetting about air bags, and ABS brakes and such > > things , > > >> right > > > > T3s were available with ABS. Airbags are easily added. Stability > > control likewise (but this is no guarantee of safety... "Wheels" in > > Australia recently tested a Toyota Kluger (=Highlander) and the > > stability control did NOT step in when it should have... and the > > vehicle rolled several times (and the Aussie market demands much > > better suspension than US). > > > > >> since the only 'people sit right in front' vehicles sold in > > north America > > >> are trucks. ( I'm thinking those Isuzu cab-over diesel delivery > > trucks and > > >> similar cab-over trucks ) > > >> In all cars , mini-vans, and people haulers, the occupants are > > mid-mounted > > >> these days. > > > > Well, the Japanese have continued with forward-control vans (and > > likewise the 2nd-generation Mitsubishi Delica made by Hyundai as the > > H100). These must be passing Euro NCAP offset-head-on crashtests, > > which the T3 would pass with flying colors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > + To unsubscribe from the Vanagon List send an e-mail to > > + listserv@gerry.vanagon.com with SIGNOFF VANAGON > > + in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > + To unsubscribe from the Vanagon List send an e-mail to > + listserv@gerry.vanagon.com with SIGNOFF VANAGON > + in the body of the message. > ------------------------------------------------------------ >

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