Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:52:06 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
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reply-type=response
Daryl did chime in,
he said he rarely sees ring gear bearings being bad..........
( ok, 'final drive bearings' )
I agree........but I've sure seen a lot of bad ring and pinion GEARS ......
and those can make noise I'd think.
Run it in the air at about 35 mph, on very solid safe jackstands,
and put your listening rod on the bell housing area of the trans.
Make the engine go at a steady speed , not varying.
and why are you sure it's not in the front of the van ???
we'll get it.
and actually............you'll see, in the end, that it falls under the
famous saying :
"it's just a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons."
a failed bearing or gear falls under the 'blockage or leakage of fluids.'
Almost Every failure falls under this too - blockage or leakage of fluids or
electrons.
even a flat tire.
and there are a few people that don't realize 'fluids' include gases, not
just liquids.
'cracked windshield...........I suppose that doesn't fit under 'leakage or
blockage come to think of it.......but most failures to.
anyway............
run 'er in the air !
just be very careful. Solid jack stands and a hard level floor are
imperative.
Scott
turbovans.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Houle" <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
> On the gas, off the gas, uphill, downhil, it doesn't seem to matter.
> The noise stays the same. It sounds well, like a worn bearing. Kind of
> like a low frequency hum. It's as loud as the engine is at 35 mph and
> it goes thru harmonics with the engine as the RPMs change.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans"
> <scottdaniel@turbovans.com
> > wrote:
>
>> hi,
>> I'm thinking of R & P more now all the time.
>> yes, it turns anytime the rear wheels are turning.
>> regardless of clutch in, cluch out, in gear, neutral, or engine
>> running.
>> The ring gear turns with the rear wheels, the pinon gear is
>> constantly engaged with the ring gear.
>>
>> ok......does the sound vary whether you are on, or off, the gas, or
>> 'neutral pressure' on the gears ?
>>
>> I have an 87 Wolfsburg ........248,000 miles on the odo. it was
>> noisy in all gears.
>> noticeable from 30 mph up.
>> I would describe that as 'bearing noise' and not 'dronning.'
>>
>> Darryl.......plase comment - on this guy's situation.
>>
>> btw, the ring and pinion can be seen just be removing the bell
>> housing.......
>> which means engine out or trans out.
>> one trans shop I go to ............once the R & P is shot, the whole
>> care value of the trans is zip.
>>
>> drive alongside a wall, like on an overpass if you can find one,
>> trying to isolate it to left or right, front or back.
>> scott
>> turbovans
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Houle" <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM
>> >
>> To: <VANAGON@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>; "Scott Daniel"
>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM
>> >
>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
>>
>>
>>> In that case, I guess they just retightened the axle nuts. I saw them
>>> working with with the big socket & long extension handle. They
>>> said the
>>> rears loosened up a little. There was a rattle when going over
>>> bumps that
>>> developed after their first work. That's gone now, but the main
>>> droning
>>> noise remains. Touching the brakes and swerving side to side have no
>>> effect at all. The noise is directly proportional to the speed of
>>> the van.
>>> Dry CVs sound possible, but I did them approx. 500 miles ago. I
>>> used the
>>> 90G grease packet that came with the Van-Cafe kit in each joint,
>>> then I
>>> shot a little more in with a needle after the boots were on. Does
>>> the ring
>>> & pinion still spin when the clutch is in and the trans is in
>>> neutral?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:28:56 -0800, Scott Daniel - Turbovans
>>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hmmmm.............'readjusted rear wheel bearings sounds a little
>>>> fishy.
>>>> There is no adjustment per se, like the front wheel bearings have.
>>>> There is only the torque of the large rear axle nut, and there is
>>>> a spacer
>>>> between the bearings that affect where things get positioned
>>>> exactly, but
>>>> it's not an adjustment really.
>>>> that they checked all things......that's good. And maybe they
>>>> meant the
>>>> check the torque of the rear axle nuts, but there really is no way
>>>> to
>>>> 'adjust' the rear wheel bearings.
>>>> Does touching the brakes while it's doing it make any difference ?
>>>>
>>>> 'dry CV joint' doesn't quite fit your symptom............
>>>> but I find many of CV joints quite dry, and worn.
>>>> Worn ring and pinion comes to mind for a droning noise, but that's
>>>> not a
>>>> diagnosis......just something to consider.
>>>>
>>>> how does swerving gently at 35 mph affect the noise ?
>>>> not at all, or somewhat, swerving either left or right ?
>>>> Scott
>>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Walter Houle" <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
>>>> To: <VANAGON@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>; "Scott Daniel"
>>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, I did a quick check of the plug and it was very clean. Not
>>>>> even a
>>>>> sliver. I also rotated the tires and verified all pressures were
>>>>> 44 PSI.
>>>>> Next, I went back to the shop. They checked everything, re-
>>>>> adjusted the
>>>>> rear bearings which were slightly loose, and re-torqued all axle,
>>>>> CV
>>>>> joint, and wheel lug bolts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still no change in the nosie. If anything, its getting louder.
>>>>> What can
>>> I
>>>>> check next?
>>>>>
>>>>> Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:32:39 -0800, Scott Daniel - Turbovans
>>>>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing you could and should do is pull the magnetic drain
>>>>>> plug on the
>>>>>> trans and see how much metal is on it.
>>>>>> A half inch diameter 'golf ball' of fine metal particles is
>>>>>> normal.
>>> Worse
>>>>>> than that isn't.
>>>>>> One one trans, I pulled out the magnetic drain plug, cleaned it
>>>>>> off, put
>>>>>> back in, and a bunch more metal came out with the magnet
>>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>> That trans was toast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for suspected wheel bearing noise you swerve gentley.
>>>>>> USUALLY .....if
>>> it's
>>>>>> noisy going straight and left, but quieter going swerving
>>>>> right.......it's a
>>>>>> right side wheel bearing.
>>>>>> You didn't meantion front bearings, but need to consider that too.
>>>>>> And one of our members just had to re-do one of his rear wheel
>>>>>> bearings
>>>>> not
>>>>>> long after doing them.......I wonder if you have the same thing
>>>>>> going
>>> on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> here's another transmission bearing test : Idling in neutral,
>>>>>> you push
>>> in
>>>>>> the clutch pedal, or let it up, and compare noise levels. There
>>> shouldn't
>>>>> be
>>>>>> any noise either way, holding the clutch pedal down, or lettting
>>>>>> it up.
>>>>>> If it's quiet when pushed down, but noisy when let up ( in
>>>>>> neutral )
>>>>>> ..........that indicates noisy and worn transmission input shaft
>>>>> bearings,.
>>>>>> I'm sure Daryl will have more insights on this.........but these
>>>>>> are
>>> some
>>>>> of
>>>>>> my tried and true bearing noise sleuthing methods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, where anything is 'new' as in recently worked
>>>>>> on.........that's
>>>>> where
>>>>>> you look first, and the hardest. *Especially* if someone else
>>>>>> did the
>>>>>> work.......
>>>>>> then you should be automatically drawn to looking into it there,
>>>>>> where
>>>>> work
>>>>>> was just done. Seriously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> scott
>>>>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Walter Houle" <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
>>>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Transmission Noise ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Folks -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never thought I'd do a "what's that noise" post, but here
>>>>>>> goes. My
>>> van
>>>>>>> started making a new noise. Its a steady droning, almost as
>>>>>>> loud as
>>> the
>>>>>>> motor, and it only occurs at 30 mph and higher. The noise
>>>>>>> appears to
>>> be
>>>>>>> independant of the engine and the transmission. Pushing in the
>>>>>>> clutch,
>>>>>>> coasting in neutral, and even coasting with the motor off do
>>>>>>> not have
>>>>> any
>>>>>>> effect on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hoping its tires or wheel bearings. However, the tires are
>>>>>>> about a
>>>>>>> year old Michelin LTX M/S with approx 3,000 miles, and they
>>>>>>> never made
>>>>> any
>>>>>>> noise previously. The van was treated to new CVs and wheel
>>>>>>> bearings
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> 500 miles ago, and the rear brakes were adjusted. I put it on
>>>>>>> stands
>>> and
>>>>>>> spun each of the wheels by hand, plus under drive. Didn't feel
>>>>>>> or hear
>>>>>>> anything unusual, just a light drag of the brake on each wheel.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>> tires
>>>>>>> also looked fine and true. The transmission, however, is
>>>>>>> original,
>>> with
>>>>>>> 210,000 miles and no service whatsoever except for some very
>>> infrequent
>>>>>>> oil changes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any ideas what I'm hearing? It really sounds like a bearing
>>>>>>> going bad,
>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the fact that it happens when coasting makes me wonder. What
>>>>>>> bearings
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> involved with just the driveshafts turning?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Walter - 85 Vanagon 1.9 Manual Transmission
>>
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