Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:39:44 -0800
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
In-Reply-To: <C2D54A8D-40DA-4B21-A08D-D17AF463FADD@ecscontrols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
It sounds like a wheel bearing noise to me. My Passat front wheel
had a whining noise which made two mechanics of two different shops
pointing their fingers at my tranny. Both CV boots were found to
have torn into pieces. I jumped into a conclusion that my CV joints
were shot. All were wrong. I decided to get both wheel bearings
replaced so I went to another shop to get a quote. The shop was
known to be a good one for Mercedes. They refused to work on VW
Passats. They said it's the tranny too.
I had no where to go to but the dealers. But I was equally firm
to not go to the dealers. So I bought whatever tools I needed
and did the work myself to replace passenger side wheel bearing fist.
Bingo. That was it. The Passat is a front wheel drive car. It's
kind of difficult to replace the wheel bearings. My guess is that
you have a shot wheel bearing, probably the outer one, on one of
your rear wheels.
David
--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Walter Houle <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM> wrote:
> From: Walter Houle <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
> Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 3:22 PM
> On the gas, off the gas, uphill, downhil, it doesn't
> seem to matter.
> The noise stays the same. It sounds well, like a worn
> bearing. Kind of
> like a low frequency hum. It's as loud as the engine is
> at 35 mph and
> it goes thru harmonics with the engine as the RPMs change.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, "Scott Daniel -
> Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com
> > wrote:
>
> > hi,
> > I'm thinking of R & P more now all the time.
> > yes, it turns anytime the rear wheels are turning.
> > regardless of clutch in, cluch out, in gear, neutral,
> or engine
> > running.
> > The ring gear turns with the rear wheels, the pinon
> gear is
> > constantly engaged with the ring gear.
> >
> > ok......does the sound vary whether you are on, or
> off, the gas, or
> > 'neutral pressure' on the gears ?
> >
> > I have an 87 Wolfsburg ........248,000 miles on the
> odo. it was
> > noisy in all gears.
> > noticeable from 30 mph up.
> > I would describe that as 'bearing noise' and
> not 'dronning.'
> >
> > Darryl.......plase comment - on this guy's
> situation.
> >
> > btw, the ring and pinion can be seen just be removing
> the bell
> > housing.......
> > which means engine out or trans out.
> > one trans shop I go to ............once the R & P
> is shot, the whole
> > care value of the trans is zip.
> >
> > drive alongside a wall, like on an overpass if you can
> find one,
> > trying to isolate it to left or right, front or back.
> > scott
> > turbovans
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter
> Houle" <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM
> > >
> > To: <VANAGON@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>; "Scott
> Daniel" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM
> > >
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
> >
> >
> >> In that case, I guess they just retightened the
> axle nuts. I saw them
> >> working with with the big socket & long
> extension handle. They
> >> said the
> >> rears loosened up a little. There was a rattle
> when going over
> >> bumps that
> >> developed after their first work. That's gone
> now, but the main
> >> droning
> >> noise remains. Touching the brakes and swerving
> side to side have no
> >> effect at all. The noise is directly proportional
> to the speed of
> >> the van.
> >> Dry CVs sound possible, but I did them approx.
> 500 miles ago. I
> >> used the
> >> 90G grease packet that came with the Van-Cafe kit
> in each joint,
> >> then I
> >> shot a little more in with a needle after the
> boots were on. Does
> >> the ring
> >> & pinion still spin when the clutch is in and
> the trans is in
> >> neutral?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:28:56 -0800, Scott Daniel -
> Turbovans
> >> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >>
> >>> hmmmm.............'readjusted rear wheel
> bearings sounds a little
> >>> fishy.
> >>> There is no adjustment per se, like the front
> wheel bearings have.
> >>> There is only the torque of the large rear
> axle nut, and there is
> >>> a spacer
> >>> between the bearings that affect where things
> get positioned
> >>> exactly, but
> >>> it's not an adjustment really.
> >>> that they checked all things......that's
> good. And maybe they
> >>> meant the
> >>> check the torque of the rear axle nuts, but
> there really is no way
> >>> to
> >>> 'adjust' the rear wheel bearings.
> >>> Does touching the brakes while it's doing
> it make any difference ?
> >>>
> >>> 'dry CV joint' doesn't quite fit
> your symptom............
> >>> but I find many of CV joints quite dry, and
> worn.
> >>> Worn ring and pinion comes to mind for a
> droning noise, but that's
> >>> not a
> >>> diagnosis......just something to consider.
> >>>
> >>> how does swerving gently at 35 mph affect the
> noise ?
> >>> not at all, or somewhat, swerving either left
> or right ?
> >>> Scott
> >>> www.turbovans.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Walter Houle"
> <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
> >>> To: <VANAGON@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>;
> "Scott Daniel"
> >> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
> >>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:24 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Transmission Noise ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> OK, I did a quick check of the plug and it
> was very clean. Not
> >>>> even a
> >>>> sliver. I also rotated the tires and
> verified all pressures were
> >>>> 44 PSI.
> >>>> Next, I went back to the shop. They
> checked everything, re-
> >>>> adjusted the
> >>>> rear bearings which were slightly loose,
> and re-torqued all axle,
> >>>> CV
> >>>> joint, and wheel lug bolts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Still no change in the nosie. If anything,
> its getting louder.
> >>>> What can
> >> I
> >>>> check next?
> >>>>
> >>>> Walter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:32:39 -0800, Scott
> Daniel - Turbovans
> >>>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> One thing you could and should do is
> pull the magnetic drain
> >>>>> plug on the
> >>>>> trans and see how much metal is on it.
> >>>>> A half inch diameter 'golf
> ball' of fine metal particles is
> >>>>> normal.
> >> Worse
> >>>>> than that isn't.
> >>>>> One one trans, I pulled out the
> magnetic drain plug, cleaned it
> >>>>> off, put
> >>>>> back in, and a bunch more metal came
> out with the magnet
> >>>>> immediately.
> >>>>> That trans was toast.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> for suspected wheel bearing noise you
> swerve gentley.
> >>>>> USUALLY .....if
> >> it's
> >>>>> noisy going straight and left, but
> quieter going swerving
> >>>> right.......it's a
> >>>>> right side wheel bearing.
> >>>>> You didn't meantion front
> bearings, but need to consider that too.
> >>>>> And one of our members just had to
> re-do one of his rear wheel
> >>>>> bearings
> >>>> not
> >>>>> long after doing them.......I wonder
> if you have the same thing
> >>>>> going
> >> on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> here's another transmission
> bearing test : Idling in neutral,
> >>>>> you push
> >> in
> >>>>> the clutch pedal, or let it up, and
> compare noise levels. There
> >> shouldn't
> >>>> be
> >>>>> any noise either way, holding the
> clutch pedal down, or lettting
> >>>>> it up.
> >>>>> If it's quiet when pushed down,
> but noisy when let up ( in
> >>>>> neutral )
> >>>>> ..........that indicates noisy and
> worn transmission input shaft
> >>>> bearings,.
> >>>>> I'm sure Daryl will have more
> insights on this.........but these
> >>>>> are
> >> some
> >>>> of
> >>>>> my tried and true bearing noise
> sleuthing methods.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also, where anything is 'new'
> as in recently worked
> >>>>> on.........that's
> >>>> where
> >>>>> you look first, and the hardest.
> *Especially* if someone else
> >>>>> did the
> >>>>> work.......
> >>>>> then you should be automatically drawn
> to looking into it there,
> >>>>> where
> >>>> work
> >>>>> was just done. Seriously.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> scott
> >>>>> www.turbovans.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Walter Houle"
> <whoule@ECSCONTROLS.COM>
> >>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:42
> PM
> >>>>> Subject: Transmission Noise ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Folks -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I never thought I'd do a
> "what's that noise" post, but here
> >>>>>> goes. My
> >> van
> >>>>>> started making a new noise. Its a
> steady droning, almost as
> >>>>>> loud as
> >> the
> >>>>>> motor, and it only occurs at 30
> mph and higher. The noise
> >>>>>> appears to
> >> be
> >>>>>> independant of the engine and the
> transmission. Pushing in the
> >>>>>> clutch,
> >>>>>> coasting in neutral, and even
> coasting with the motor off do
> >>>>>> not have
> >>>> any
> >>>>>> effect on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm hoping its tires or wheel
> bearings. However, the tires are
> >>>>>> about a
> >>>>>> year old Michelin LTX M/S with
> approx 3,000 miles, and they
> >>>>>> never made
> >>>> any
> >>>>>> noise previously. The van was
> treated to new CVs and wheel
> >>>>>> bearings
> >>>> about
> >>>>>> 500 miles ago, and the rear brakes
> were adjusted. I put it on
> >>>>>> stands
> >> and
> >>>>>> spun each of the wheels by hand,
> plus under drive. Didn't feel
> >>>>>> or hear
> >>>>>> anything unusual, just a light
> drag of the brake on each wheel.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>> tires
> >>>>>> also looked fine and true. The
> transmission, however, is
> >>>>>> original,
> >> with
> >>>>>> 210,000 miles and no service
> whatsoever except for some very
> >> infrequent
> >>>>>> oil changes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any ideas what I'm hearing? It
> really sounds like a bearing
> >>>>>> going bad,
> >>>> but
> >>>>>> the fact that it happens when
> coasting makes me wonder. What
> >>>>>> bearings
> >>>> are
> >>>>>> involved with just the driveshafts
> turning?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Walter - 85 Vanagon 1.9 Manual
> Transmission
> >
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