Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:19:55 -0600
Reply-To: joel walker <uncajoel@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: joel walker <uncajoel@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Vanagon List Moderator-let's get things underway!
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>> Some things need cleaning up, but mostly I would like to see the
>> [NVC]
>> become standard fair for off topic subjects. And to see Frydaye
>> Follies
>> become a permanent part of the scene.
>
> Some people will leave if this is done. Already, when people first
> sign up,
> they are often overwhelmed by the volume of mail and back out. If
> half of
> that mail is not even about vanagons, it will be that much worse.
i strongly disagree.
from the onset, the vanagon list has always been much more than just a
tech list ..
it's been a small cul-de-sac community of people. and people don't
always sit around, talking over coffee and beer, about tech things.
and some 'tech things' aren't really tech things ... do you like the
look of the round headlights versus the 86-91 rectangular ones? South
African headlights versus the other two types? are white-wall tires
really only for old american cars? which beer goes best after
repacking your cv joints? :)
the volume of mail is usually set off by differences in opinions about
some subject, which often IS more techie than not ... like tires,
heat, rust, and headlights ... and by "oh, that happened to me, too!"
stories. all of which is vital to a community ... if we don't share
stories and i-did-that-this-way opinions, then it might as well be
every man/woman for themselves ..the human 'community' got ahead by
HELPING each other, not by hiding secrets from the rest of the
community. competition helps, too ... so we have more than one list
vendor to take care of that end ... you can buy parts from several
different places, even in canada! and germany, and belgium. nobody in
england or mexico yet, though. :(
the Frydaye Follies are sort of a release valve for the rest of the
week ... like Friday afternoons or "casual fridays" at work ...
getting together at the nearby pub/bar/whatever for a beer with your
co-workers after a long week of putting up with the boss (in our case,
a much-discussed administrator/moderator) ... a day when tech talk
doesn't have to be so high on the must-do list.
in other words, the list is a sort of reflection of our work lives and
our personal lives .. not just some committee meeting where technical
schedules and difficulties are hashed out or put off til "the next
meeting tomorrow at 2 o'clock".
and i think this is a good thing. that this is the way it should be.
it certainly worked well way back when, in the beginnings of the list,
when most of us Vanagon owners needed a lot more than tech help ... we
needed a support group, a clan to tell us that we weren't stupid and
crazy for owning and loving these buses ... that it wasn't totally
illogical and we could show the wife/whatever that there WERE other
people out there and they were like me, and this is a good car and we
ought to keep it.
people don't always see the future the same way, even when they
espouse the same ideals, or drive the same cars, or even live in the
same community ... and it takes discussion to work it out so we can
ALL be comfortable and secure and not worry about our sanity and
safety ... and this is most definitely NON-technical, at least not
technical about volkswagen vanagons. :)
this is why i must strongly put in my own personal protest at making
THIS list a totally tech list, without any regard for the community
conversations most of us have enjoyed throughout the years. we've
developed friendships (albetit over email, but some of us have
actually MET other vanagon owners in person), and i don't think you
get much of that spread around the community if you go tech-only. i've
seen this happen on other lists, particularly the Type2 list, and i
don't like it ... it reminds me waay to much of those tech committe
meetings ... yes, they are necessary. yes, they contribute to the
running of the world we work in and live in. but no ... they should
NOT be the end-all be-all to life or this list.
> So it seems kind of unfair to abuse their place on this list
> by sending them things they really didn't ask for.
so how unfair is it to abuse the non-tech folks who did sign up for
'support group' type discussions ... and just generally to hang around
with other folks driving the same type of car, and to gain
ammunition/information to use against the wife to keep the bus in the
family ... with all the high-tech .blather??
do we really care about the 930 cv joints or putting a tiico or bostig
engine in some bus to gain horsepower and bragging rights? the great
majority of the list members will never have the money nor the
mechanical expertise nor even a local mechanic able to comprehend such
technical jobs ... for us, it's just coffee-table magazines and books,
like the picture books of Porsche 911s and Ferarris and Aston Martins
... and Playboys: just window dressing; pipe dreams; something to peer
at through the dust of our dreary day-to-day lives. ;)
and that's ok ... for those of us who actually do have the garage and
money and tools and mental agility to do such things, great .. go for
it! the rest of us will live our dull hum-drum lives vicariously
through you, just like we do with Richard Jones's trips through the
Rockiesk, and Frank Condelli's many trips from Canada to Mexico, and
all the other road trips we see not nearly enough of to suit me. ;)
are road trips to be banned from the list? they aren't technical at
all! all subjective and opinionated.
and i think very very necessary. if your neighbor goes off on
vacation, and doesn't come over to harange you with tales of how bad
it was in Orlando with all the 'tourists' trying to get to Disney
World, a lot of us would feel a bit hurt ... it's kinda fun to watch
someone try and cram a week of insanity with wife, kids, dogs, cars,
traffic, hotels, restaurants, and all the other things that go with a
'road trip' into a few minutes of conversation ... at least, i enjoy
it. and i think a lot of others on the list do, too. :)
that's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
unca joel
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